Mallory: Welcome back to my conversation with Jamar Diggs. This is the first time ever I’m doing two episodes in one week because there was just so much that we talked about last time. And then we got off and we were like, “wait a second,we only got really halfway through this conversation”. 

We focused on how individuals, how nonprofits can really be attracting the right funder, the right kind of problem, aware people into your funnel system or donor acquisition tools. We really talked about the education side of things, how you start to build community and help people find you because you’re answering the right questions for them.

And today we’re going to really talk about how you convert those people to either being your customers if you’re listening as a nonprofit consultant or for your funders. 

So Jamar, thanks so much for coming back and continuing this conversation with me. 

Jamar: Yes, of course. Thank you for having me again. I feel like the first session was just so amazing and I’m like, “Oh, we have to do another one. It would mean the world to me if we did, are you done with that?”

Mallory: And of course I was like, “Yes, I am” because I had so much fun too. 

So I have a number of questions, but I want to just kick it to you to start. Bring us home from where we were last time to okay, now these people know who we are, we learned a little bit about how we keep them on YouTube so they’re looking at some of our other content…Now, where do we?

Jamar: Yeah. So now that we have all that done, that’s the hard part, getting that visibility. Do we have the right way? And then now this part can be a little bit easier, right?

I like to think it is easier, I may be a little bit biased, but this is going to be where we need to get them off of YouTube. We need to find a way to convert them into an actual donor or onto our sponsor list or whatever that may be. 

One of the easiest ways that I recommend is to get them on some type of email list, but give them a reason why they should be giving you their email. For some people it could be an info sheet, for others it can be a one-sheet on what you need to tell your boss in order to make this an actual sponsorship opportunity. 

What are some of those things, hat are some of those ways that you can be that guiding light or  that resource for people to be your advocate without you being there?

Mallory: So that content, that freebie, that download that then essentially captures their email in the process, that’s related I’m assuming to the question that you’re answering in that education video.

Jamar: Yes. 100%. Yes. It’s okay to have just one, or it can be satisfying different verticals as well.

Maybe one is for the actual individual donor and then another lead magnet could be something for people looking for sponsorships or anything like that. So you can have different verticals, just like how typically, you would want to segment your email list anyway, right?

Because after they get that lead magnet we do want to still nurture them, like in the email sequences, we still want to deliver to them accurate and relatable content that relates to what they opt into. So for a donor it’s let’s learn more about the mission, let’s learn more about the impact, let’s learn more about what we’ve done so far in the year and here’s how you can contribute too. Let’s learn more about some stories that have happened.

And then when it comes to a sponsorship type of thing for  a corporate person, it could be something similar, but also maybe what is the impact on a larger scale? How does it work? What are some things that you need to keep in mind whenever you’re thinking about, X, Y, and Z? Here are our top months for contributing, here’s what we need, here’s how you can support us. Are you looking to have this type of impact in the community? Here’s how it looks like.

Give them that information, give them as much ability to make an educated decision, and give them the power to give that information to their decision-makers. 

Mallory: Okay. I love that. And I have a question that I’ve always wondered, which is how should these organizations be thinking about the quality of the download?

Let’s say you’re trying to capture their email to give them a freebie on something. I’ve done a lot of these things, and sometimes the quality, I don’t mean quality in terms of just like graphic design, but the quality of the content in there is so amazing, and then other times I’m like “I could have Googled this and it would have been what showed up right away”.

So I’m curious as these nonprofits are thinking about making whatever these things are, as they’re capturing email addresses, what kind of level of qualities should the resource have so that it feels like the donor then has a sense for the quality of their work.

Jamar: This is a good question, we like to think of perfectionism as it being like, it has to be a professionally designed thing if we do make it, but really when I say high quality it needs to be something of impact. It shouldn’t be something that they can just find on Google.

When you are fundraising on a regular basis, what are those go-to questions that people automatically ask all the time? Why not put that in there? Why not give them everything that they need? If they want to support, give them everything that they need to support.

And then also have it be quick. This is one thing that I have seen sometimes, and I don’t know if you have seen this but I have seen some nonprofits make it difficult to find the buy button, to find the donate button. There are sometimes where it could literally just be how to donate, how to get involved in X, Y, and Z, and then all these different ways of how to get involved.

That works two ways, it tells the donor what you currently do in the community, how you currently impact people. Here’s how they can impact if they choose to, this is how they can volunteer, this is how they can give.

And by the way, if you want to give here is the link to give to us, press this button up on this PDF, or on this webpage, or whatever it needs to be to give. This is what happens when you give, this is how much money goes towards giving, this is how much money goes towards admin… It could be a whole lot of things, it can be visually appealing and also valuable at the same time.

And that’s just one example of how one type of resource could be a lead magnet. Does that make sense? 

Mallory: Yeah. Totally. And I would even say so for organizations what I talk about inside my program a lot is this idea of assets. All organizations have all these different types of assets and I really try to help them leverage those assets for the right types of funders to engage them.

I’m thinking for an organization that has identified their volunteer opportunities as a strong asset, maybe they’re making a YouTube video about the right type of corporate volunteer opportunity for your company. And it talks a little bit about the different types of volunteering that are out there and then how their organization fits into that.

And then maybe the freebie download would be “Here are all of our organization’s volunteer opportunities”. So then they would download something that shows, “Okay, we have this thing that works for this size group and we have this thing which can be done individually”. 

So they would have captured their email when they were getting that download. But then they’re also getting this really concrete information about the organization. 

Is that how you would do this? 

Jamar: Yes. I love that. That’s actually perfect. 

Mallory: Okay. I’m learning so much from you. It’s amazing. So that makes a lot of sense, and I hope for nonprofits who are listening to this you’re starting to put some of those pieces together too.

So the education is this, this is what the people are going to be searching for to find that video, you’re answering their question, but then you’re integrating the way that your organization aligns with that question in some way. And then the email capture, the second step engagement, is then answering a second question that they might have about your organization, or maybe it’s an educational concept as well, but it’s something that you have uniquely created the content around.

Jamar: Yes. Oh my gosh! I’m in heaven right now. That is 100% correct. I’m loving what you’re doing right now. 

Mallory: Okay, good. I think for a lot of nonprofits is the first time thinking through a funnel. A lot of nonprofits don’t have funnels set up the way that we as service providers do, or think about their leads even at different stages of development.

So I think this is probably getting a lot of wheels to turn both in terms of YouTube, but just in general how do you think about funder prospecting. So I love that. 

Can I ask you a few more detailed questions about the type of YouTube content that this would coincide with? 

Jamar: Yes, of course. 

Mallory: So this is maybe nitty-gritty, but I have a feeling that it’s going to be something that nonprofits are wondering about. Do you recommend that when they’re creating this content, not the download but the video itself, that they’re doing it with slides? Or is them talking to the camera, answering a question enough?

What do you recommend in terms of the level of production around these videos and when they should be utilizing visual tools or not? I have a feeling that that might be one barrier that comes up for this audience in particular.

Jamar: Yeah. I were to say very basic, cause I like to keep things very basic so that there is not a barrier to entry or any type of learning curve that is too steep. 

What I like to recommend is just show up with your face on the camera, and answer that question. But then if you need to provide a visual way to present certain types of information don’t be afraid to use Canva, and a very easy-to-use video editing platform like iMovie where all you are doing is just moving and choosing when you want that graphic to come over your face.

It’s very simple to where you just design the graphic or have someone design that graphic, you put it inside your video editing platform, and then you literally just drag it into the actual spot where you want that visual element to pop up.

Just keep it very simple, and then it moves on. You even get to put how many seconds you want it to show on the screen, and then it can go away. I think just that type of simple visual element is totally fine, and it does provide a certain pattern interrupt which is like a really good way to increase retention, the amount of people that stay on your video without going away from it. That’s just one tactic to use. 

So if you need to, and it does not cause anxiety or it doesn’t cause anyone to be afraid or put them off, it would be amazing to add that in there. Do you have to? No! But I would really recommend a face to a camera though. 

Mallory: Yes. Okay. I love that. And I know some people are probably like, “Oh no! I was hoping he would say that I could hide” because I experience that all the time. I’m like, “Okay should this webinar be live? Should my face be on there?”

And every single one I am on there, even though I could just have the slides, I get it, we want to connect with people and it keeps our engagement so much more real. I love what you just said, it also made me think that as we think about that conversion piece, the attract and then convert, is that maybe the downloads is the more produced content support. 

So it’s like “Here, I am just explaining this to you in an auditory way, one-on-one with my camera”. But if you want a step-by-step visual of what I’m talking about, download this thing and give me your email. 

Jamar: That’ll be perfect. If they want the slides or if they want the blueprint or the framework or the guide or the whatever, they can download it in the lead magnet. 

And that’s very common for certain YouTube videos too. For example, if someone’s explaining a concept, they probably have information that they can just download. If they have the checklist or something, they have access to the checklist in the download so they can just do that same thing. 

Mallory: Yes. Okay. I love that. I’m curious if there are some patterns, when you see someone really struggling to convert folks from their YouTube channel to their email list. We’re thinking about it, ultimately that they’re going to be fundraisers, but the first step to that is their email list. Maybe they’re going to give right away, those are going to be some really high quality funders, but a lot of folks that are going to sit on their email list for a little while before they give, get to know the organization better. 

Are there some kind of blanket, like no-nos that you see that really hold people back from being able to convert effectively?

Jamar: Yes. There are a few things, but I have two that just popped into my head as soon as you said that. 

So the first thing is that they wait until the very end of their video to ask for the money, or to ask for the sale, or to ask for the call to action. That’s very natural for us to do because  we want to serve or answer the question, and then at the very end, we want to be like, “Okay, now that I helped you, how about you help me?” We have that kind of concept, the truth of the matter is that we cannot expect everyone to watch our video all the way through.

In fact, what happens is once someone has the information, the audience retention, the watch time, goes down right at the very end of the video. They got the information that they needed and then they go away. So what I recommend is talking about it a little bit at the very end, and have the soft mentions that there are ways to give. If you’re looking for ways to give the information is down inside the description, right? 

You can always just say that really quick, you don’t have to make it heavy, you don’t have to make it long.  “We’re also having this fundraiser to where you can give.”

You can totally do that at the end if you want, but I can just answer that question and direct them to the description near the beginning of the video, within the first minute. 

Just talk about it very briefly, and then the second thing is that they don’t mention it at all. They think that the video is enough. And if people wanted to give them, if they were caught to give, then they would have clicked the link in the description. 

We have to understand that when it comes to marketing, people have to be told what to do. That’s why we have these calls to action, that’s what they’re called. We have to let them know what to do next. Because if they don’t, then they’re just going to be like, “That was such a moving video or that was such a great explanation. All right. Moving on to the next video”, right? 

Cool. That’s nice but if there’s no call to action in it at all… If you’re answering this frequently asked question, cool, that is amazing. But make sure that you are including those calls to action in there. 

So most other times, whenever videos, YouTubers are not getting the conversions that they want. I always notice that they are not doing the call to action. They’re not adding any conduct actions at all. All they’re doing is giving the value without structuring their video in a way that makes it very easy for people to know how they can engage with them beyond the video. 

Mallory: Okay. I love that we are talking about this because this is such a critical challenge, honestly, for fundraisers in general, organizations in general, it feels like an ask.

A big mantra of mine is great fundraising is not an ask, it’s an opportunity. And I love what you said at the beginning that you don’t have to make this some big thing, right? I can imagine a bunch of organizations going on their 15 disclaimers before they’re like, “Here’s the donate button”. But you’re thinking about the beginning “Okay, welcome to this video where we’re going to talk a little bit about child trafficking, and over the course of this video, I’m going to talk about blank, and blank. If you are moved, I really want to invite you to go check out our website dah, dah.com. And the donate button is right there. If you’d like to make a donation today, that will help us, blah, blah, blah.” and into the content. 

You’re right, it’s a quick thing. There’s not some big buildup, it’s just a part of it. The number of times I’ve talked to a nonprofit, I’ve looked at their emails, their weekly emails, monthly emails, there isn’t even a donate button in there, or even a mention actually about them being a 501C3 non-profit, and I’m like, “What are you doing?!”

You’re sending out all this great content. You’re not even giving people the opportunity to get involved to convert in that way, to follow a call to action. And that, for folks who have been following me for a long time, that is the cognitive behavior loop. That action, that fear that you’re feeling around, putting that in there that is based on some thoughts and beliefs that you are holding about what it means to give people that opportunity, to invite them in.

I hear this with email: “What if people unsubscribe?” Or “What if people give you that little thumbs down on YouTube?” and we put so much weight on those things. Someone’s not going to like it. You know what? Someone’s always not gonna like it. Someone is always not gonna like it, but the people who do like it, the people who are gonna take that step farther with you, they need that invitation to do it. So I love that you’re talking about that. 

Jamar: And I think, so this is one thing that I really love doing. I like to look at other sectors at other businesses, other channels that are doing this very well. There is one channel that I think does very well and it’s Elevation Church and what they do is at the end of the sermon. I think they even have it in the sermon sometimes, but at the end of the sermon, they have this after conversation, this I don’t call it like an after-party, but it’s just like a talk after we’re like one of the pastors are like talking into the camera, really reviewing what happened.

And then he casually mentions donations, but still giving value, still reading what comments are happening. And so when you think about it, like how easy that comes to them, it’s easy to them right now because they’re used to doing it. It’s just part of the business now.

It’s part of it. They have to do it right. If they want to impact these people. It’s just part of what has to happen. And I think, sure, it may be a little bit at first because you’re like, “Oh, I’m asking for this donation”, but you don’t have to put so much pressure on it. There are people out there that want to give you just have to give them the permission.

Mallory: Exactly. Yeah. I love it and to that point about value is like “Look in order for us to continue giving the value that we give there needs to be money moving to support that value creation”. That’s how service providers operate. I always hope that I can provide 60 to 80% of my content for free.

And then my business supports my ability to do that, but if nobody, if I never sold anything, if I never had paying customers, no one would get any value. That’s the same thing for these nonprofits. They’re in that video, they’ve listened to you, they found you, you answered a question of theirs, they’re happy to be there. 

Maybe there’s going to be 1% that the moment you drop that, they’re going to leave the video. Okay, bye! But for everybody else, you have to put a line in the sand. If you’re going to get anyone to cross it, otherwise you’re like, “Where are these people in my desert?” And you don’t even know how close they are to the line or how far away they are because you never drew a line in the sand. So I think what you’re saying is so critical. 

And I know there are a lot of people listening to this too who are consultants for nonprofits, and I just want to say this too to them, because I think that especially growing up in the nonprofit sector when we are swimming in a scarcity mindset,  I’ve heard so many providers in this space say “I don’t like to pitch harder. I don’t like to sell hard”, and what that actually means is they’re never publicly offering their services, never! And I think it’s just a huge mistake. 

One, because in doing that, in modeling it, they actually would be setting a great example for the rest of the sector about “look money movement is how the world goes round. So get in there, get in the game”. So I love that you’re talking about that in this way. 

Jamar: Oh my gosh. Yes. I think we get so afraid. It’s a scarcity thing because we think about the money, but we don’t think about the value that we provide. I know that so many people will talk about value, but that’s a good thing because we don’t get it yet! When it comes to any type of organization or any consultant out there, there are times where we may feel very afraid to pitch our services or talk about the cost or anything around it, but it’s because we don’t mention the value. 

We shoot right into the cost because we think that’s what they are going to think. But what we don’t know, we don’t even open up the possibility that they have been thinking, “I need someone to help me do this thing”. We don’t even consider that a possibility. We think that they’re going to think that it is too much money immediately. No, and we have to challenge that thought, and it’s even happened to me. I had to work through that kind of mindset block. I had to make sure that I am interrupting that pattern as much as possible. Because I know that I have value to bring to this world. 

I know that I lead with impact. I know that I can help people. I know that I am in this world to serve people. I know that I have a skillset that can help people change other people’s lives. And so when you believe that you will not let your scarcity mindset get the best of you, you will shut her in that closet. Girl, let me tell you, you’ll be like, “Go sit down somewhere, honey. I have work to do.”

Mallory: Yes! The term I use for myself and my clients is “pass the mic”. I’m like, “I don’t know who gave that person the microphone, but get it out of their hands”. And that voice may never completely go away. But 100%, when you are rooted in your mission, it propels you right over that hump.

Jamar: Yes! 

Mallory: I’ll say, this is something I feel like I deal with both in terms of my business, like what you’re saying, coaching myself around different moments. Even when my prices go up, right? We get that pit in our stomach of “Am I worth this?” And all those things that are so normal.

I also really had to do a lot of work on my spending. It was so interesting at the beginning of COVID when everything was locking down and I have my own business and we’ve no idea what’s going to happen and no one’s going to be able to fundraise any money, and we had some work that had to be done on our house. And my husband was like, “Should we just do it ourselves? Who knows?” And I was like, “You know what? I am always talking about abundance and the way that our money needs to move with our values, what we believe I cannot start acting from a place of scarcity or that’s going to start to surround everything that I experienced in this world”. 

I believe that so fully, every time I’m like, “Okay, I could bootstrap this, or I could invest in a person who I get to then support to do that for me so I can actually focus on my zone of genius over here”. And it’s been crazy watching my business 10 X, the moment I started to operate that way, behave that way, and believe those things. 

It doesn’t mean I’m not scared of writing a $10,000 check here or there for something. I am. It’s terrifying. It’s so easy to be like “What if I make no money next month?” And that’s what I know these nonprofits are going through too. But the reality is the tide rises to meet you where you show.

Jamar: I just want to say one last thing about this is. Yes, we have to always believe, but then this also gives someone the opportunity to say “I know that there’s value in what this person has to bring to our nonprofit. What in our current marketing budget or fundraising budget is not working?” 

There may be some self-discovery there, and they would never discover that if the consultant never even approached them in the first place, and talked about the value that they can bring. Because when you are coming into that nonprofit, you probably are battling things that they’ve done in the past, but if they need it, something in their current toolbox is not working right. And you are giving them the opportunity to self-discover and reflect on what tool is not working. 

Mallory: 100% I’ve even had discovery calls where somebody did not hire me. And I’ve gotten an email later, like months later being like, “Hey, that discovery call, even the process of talking through that with you totally reframed how I thought about X, Y, and Z. And we did it and we’re moving in that direction.”

You and I both teach like skill sets also. So they’re even as good as I might be able to be on YouTube by myself, there’s wisdom that you have, experience that you have. There’s no doubt that’s going to increase my, the way I show up on YouTube. There’s just no question, but then there’s also the inner block piece. So even just talking to you last time helped me. We started to create the beginning of a YouTube strategy, and started to look at some of our SEO metrics. 

So I love that you’re talking about that and the value of just showing up and then inviting people to work more deeply with you because you are solving a problem that they have. And for nonprofits who are like “We’re actually solving a problem for someone else” that is actually still a problem that they experience like climate change is something that I think about constantly. We pay to offset our carbon every year, and when I went to go look for that, it was like, “I am constantly thinking about my carbon footprint” and I wanted a way to offset that.

So I think that nonprofits often forget because they’re so deep in it and they’re working in those issue areas constantly, that other people are trying to figure out how they can make a difference there. 

Jamar: Yes. Oh yes! I understand that we get so into the work that we forget about the strategy. But that’s why we either need someone to help us with the strategy, or we have to open up our minds, and just start bringing someone in that can help us with this, the skillset. 

Mallory: Yeah. I love that. I think something you were alluding to that I think is so important is what is the lost opportunity by not investing or not moving forward with something, right? Like what you were saying before, we see the price tag, or we think they’re thinking about the price tag, but it’s not about that. What value are they not getting by not making that investment? And I think you have something there too.

Jamar: Oh, my gosh. Yes! So I want to lead with a very short story. When I left my corporate job to do my business full time, I was originally doing my business for a few years before that, but it was as a side business. And so when I left this job, I was like, “Okay. What do I do?”

I’m out here now, I’m out in the open. I don’t really know what I’m doing. I know I need to fix the pricing of my services and all this other stuff, but like what where do I start? I knew that I had to surround myself with people that can help guide me. I knew that I needed to change something, I knew something was missing. Like I said before, something in my toolbox was not working.

And it was great that they all had value, but something was not getting me to the end goal. So I had invested in this coach, that gave me the tools that I needed to get my business to where it is today. If I had stayed where I was and just did not ask for help, did not invest that scary amount, whatever it may be, I would not be where I am today, meaning that I would need to go and find another job. 

I would not be able to continue to run my business. Because I had no idea how to run my business, like a CEO versus it being my side gig. Because those are two different things, those are two different modalities. I needed help with that. I needed help with understanding that. I had to invest in my very first accountant, I had to invest in my very first sales coach. I need to understand how this can all fit for me because right now I have a lot of things running through my head. So it’s nice to have someone that is focused on me cause I’m focusing on people’s marketing.

I say all that to just say, if we are afraid to make that investment, we need to keep in mind where we are today, and if we were to not take any action, we will stay there. And that’s a choice that we all have to make, but just understand that like it’s a choice and understand how hefty that choice is really impactful.

Because you can either choose to move forward in whatever that goal is that you have. Maybe you don’t get 100% to that goal, but I will take 50%. Shoot, I’ll take 40%, than 10 years not moving at all. Or a year moving at 0%.

I think it is important for nonprofits to understand when it comes to investing, it really is understanding the actual return on the investment. That’s what it comes down to, the ROI. What is the return on investment? And then understanding what that means, how is business without this person? And then how could business be with this person. 

Mallory: Yes. And I just want to drive a point home cause I have a feeling people might listen to this and they’re like, “Okay, what does this have to do with YouTube conversion?”

But actually, a lot, because the way we got into this part of the conversation is that your behavior with money going out of your organization has a lot to do with your behavior of money coming into your organization. So you were teaching us about how do we convert on YouTube, right? How do you do the call to action? How do you get someone’s email? 

And when we’re talking about what holds organizations, what holds people back from doing the conversion part well, one of the big ones was that they’re not making the ask. And so your beliefs about your investment in things are directly linked to your beliefs about inviting people to invest in your organization.

So if you’re going to look at one of those, you need to look at both of them because they’re actually the same set of thoughts and beliefs. 

Jamar: They work together. You cannot have one without the other. You can’t have a scarcity mindset internally and then feel confident asking others to give their money. That’s just not how it works!

Mallory: Exactly. But no one, in 13 years of fundraising, nobody ever asked me to look at my own money beliefs, behavior, my own spending habits. No one ever had me pull that mirror up, and if I had done that a lot earlier, I would have realized that a lot of what was holding me back as a fundraiser was directly related to how I was showing up around money in all these other areas of my life.

And what you teach in so many ways is that I just feel like this strategy is and YouTube, in general, provides organizations, provides individuals with every piece of the puzzle, but you have to take action at every piece of the puzzle.

You have to put your face on that YouTube video. So you have to get over that visibility hump. You have to give them an opportunity to engage with the organization on a deeper level, whether that’s an invitation to give right there on that video, or there’s a link so you can capture their email, but you do have to show up these ways. Which brings me to something I was thinking about as you were talking, and I’m curious about your thoughts on it.

I feel like a lot of nonprofits, and maybe this is true beyond the nonprofit sector too, just start doing platforms because they’re like, “Oh yeah. I listened to this podcast episode with Mallory and Jamar, and now we’re on YouTube. And so we’re just going to make these videos!”

And I watched these like social media, Instagram things, but why are you doing that? Where is that going? Or what’s actually your goal there? I believe all good coaches have coaches, so I love you talking about your coaches.

And so what I’m thinking about is okay, but how do we help them also just take that step back and say, “Yeah, it’s not just about throwing random content like spaghetti on a wall. It’s about having a strategy, identifying the platform that’s right for your organization. And then showing up there with intentionality towards a specific goal.”

Jamar: Yes. This happens across all companies, all individuals, all companies, and this is why I have a segment whenever I teach, called positioning, because it can be different for different non-profits, different for all businesses. 

What is your end goal? Do you need volunteers or do you need more donors? Or do you need more corporate sponsorships? Like what is that mix that you need? And it’s different for different people. Which is why you just can’t go to another non-profit’s YouTube channel and say, “Oh, I’m going to do what they’re doing”.

Because they may have a different strategy. And I use this example a lot, whenever it comes to coaches too. So one coach sells meal plans, the other one sells one-on-one coaching. They’re both posting about something different because the end goal is different. They can’t copy each other.

Otherwise, they’re going to get a lot of people who want meal plans, but they’re doing one-on-one coaching. And they’re like, “Wait a minute! I don’t want to sell meal plans”. Then the person is like, “Why are you posting this content that’s making me want to buy no plan from you?”

If you are a nonprofit and say, for example, you’re getting maybe more donations, but you don’t have that many people volunteering. There’s not a good balance. And you’re like I’m going to keep on doing the strategy that this one org is doing, but it’s just giving me more donations but no one really knows how to participate.

They just know that the only way to give is through money, but you’re saying we need people to show up in the community. But you’re not saying that because you’re copying another YouTube channel strategy. Because they’re probably really good at volunteers, but what they need is more donors. People are giving their time, but they are not giving their money. And so you just can’t copy that. 

They have to have their own strategy that makes sense for them, and then you have to look at it and look at your KPIs, look at your key performance indicators, and say, “Okay, cool. Is this working, are we just getting more increases on volunteering? I would like more donations. How do we do that? What are the highest engaging videos, right? What are the downloads that are happening from them? And then maybe we need to be making more of these videos instead of these videos, right?”

It should be an ever-changing strategy that we can collect data from so that we can pivot the strategy when needed. A strategy is a game plan, right? It’s not just shooting from the hip and that’s not to say that I say, “Oh, change your strategy after every single video that you make.” 

No! Give yourself some time to work, gather some data, and then let’s make appropriate assessments of what to do now. 

Mallory: Yeah. I love that because I think for organizations to start putting some content out with different types of calls to action, seeing what works, what doesn’t work. “Okay. A lot of people signed up for this sheet, nobody signed up for that thing. Why might that be?”

And I think what you’re also saying before, a point I really want to drive home, which is so brilliant is that how is your video on YouTube or your social media strategy reflecting what it is that you need and how you want people to engage with you. So I have people tell me all the time, the opposite of what you shared, right?

Which is what everyone just wants to do volunteer days with them, and no one wants to give. Well, if you look at their social media, all they’re showcasing all the time are volunteer opportunities. So no wonder that’s the level of inquiry, which actually I did not fully solidify until you said that. Being intentional about how what you’re sharing on these social platforms relates to your goals as an organization is just such a critical thing. I just appreciate you stating that so bluntly. 

Jamar: Yes. I think it’s so important. And then you can even do the same thing whenever you segment into your email list, too.

So you can add checkboxes saying, I’m interested in volunteering, or I’m interested in giving. Then you can also send different types of information that way, too. If you want it to, that could be a little bit better depending on the resources that orgs have. 

It just makes it easier to deliver information that people are wanting to definitely receive. And then it gives you even more information on what segment of your list is interested in giving? What part of your list is interested in volunteering? Who’s interested in both, right? Where are they? That could be really helpful. And that’s the next-level type of thing.

I think this level is getting the social media strategy together and the positioning, and then the email marketing strategy can come secondary based upon your lead magnet structure and things like that. But it is so important! 

Mallory: Yeah. Yeah. Even what you were saying before made me think about the real trends that happen, with people jumping and being in different clothes at different times or whatever. And when I think about things like that, I’m like, “Okay what is the goal of having a reel like that?” In my opinion, and tell me if you disagree, the goal of having a reel like that is you want to show people that you’re fun and you’re lighthearted.

 And so if that is your goal if you’re struggling with that… I have had organizations where the view of them is very serious, and so maybe for them actually doing some funny reels like that, would help with their brand in terms of letting people know that they are lighthearted and fun.

But if what you’re trying to do is solidify your reputation as a thought leader in something, then probably don’t do more reels of you jumping in different outfits, right? And that’s where I think YouTube really comes in at such a critical piece because of the SEO component, because of the ability to be more authentic and organic and maybe go a little bit deeper.  Which actually brings me to like a quick surface-level question, which is, do you have a recommendation around the length of time for folks’ videos?

Jamar: Yeah, so I like to suggest starting out with five to seven. Keep it very easy. Five to seven minutes. Now, most of my videos are 14 minutes long, but that’s just because I talk a lot, but also because I’m teaching something. All of my YouTube videos have so much value, it’s crazy!

But anyone starting out. Five to seven-minute videos. Maybe start in, ask them a question, and that’s just enough time for you to introduce yourself, have a call to action, talk about the question at hand, include a call to action, and close it out. That’s a five to seven-minute video right there.

Mallory: I love what you just said that you give a lot of value to your videos. What about people who are afraid of giving it all away for free?

Jamar: So this is the funny thing. So in my head, I always think about the position that you want to put your channel in.

Thinking about what is your positioning strategy around everything. Yes, there are certain ways to use certain things, but you don’t have to do everything in your niche. How can you attract the people that you want? 

Mallory: Okay. I love that because I think for nonprofits too, that’s actually a really important point, which is to identify what types of content…and probably they are like what do you mean to give it away for free? Because it’s different in the nonprofit sector. But even when we think about assets and organizations, a lot of times what I’m talking about are like assets with a ton of value that you could monetize. 

So dog fostering organizations have all these staff onsite who are dog trainers, that’s a marketable asset of the organization that they could use to drive corporate sponsorships that they could use, to drive monthly donors, all of these different things.

Okay. So figure out that. What types of little dog training videos do you want to do for free on YouTube and what pieces of the training or the application, whether it’s a one-on-one dog training session with one of your people or something like that, that you really want to keep in your back pocket as the second layer of access.

So if you have big thought leaders on your board of directors and you want them to do a quick YouTube video about something that they’re a thought leader on, but then they get access to those board members if they become a part of this giving circle, for example. I think the thing that you are hammering home that is so important is like strategy., strategy, strategy. 

So going back to the very beginning of why we wanted to do part two was like, okay, so we talked about all the attraction, get them here, they know about you, but then you need to convert them, you need to convert them to be your people that doesn’t always mean giving. Sometimes it means just getting them on that list. Which means you have to make an invitation. 

And then I really feel like people got a little bonus here with us going deep into that scarcity conversation because I think that is such a critical barrier that comes up around this conversion piece. So I’m super happy that we went there and I know we could talk all day, but, any other things you want to make sure that people really walk away with from this kind of conversion conversation? 

Jamar: I just think that we have to focus on not being afraid to ask for the dough, to ask for the money, ask for the donation, ask for the thing.

What is the goal? Ask them for that thing to get you closer to your goal. We can put out all the content in the world and not do anything if we don’t ask them for what we need from them. So just always ask, always have that call to action in your video. 

Mallory: Awesome. Okay. So I love ending these episodes with an invitation, for folks to share about an organization that they love and why. And for those who are listening, if they feel called to do so, to go look them up and give. So I’ll pass it to you to share with us today. 

Jamar: Yeah. So I am still wanting to stick to my other ones because I love them so much, and I just want them to have all the visibility in the world. The Norfolk LGBT Life Center, they do so much for the community here in Norfolk, Virginia, all the way from HIV testing to also helping teens that have been kicked out or displaced. They do a lot for this community.

People just don’t recognize them enough, and I want to just tell them people about them as much as possible. 

Mallory: I love it. Oh, I love it. Thank you so much for doing this, I’m really excited as I keep saying for everyone to just learn about YouTube, I feel like for the first time. 

So how can people find you? How can people work with you? I’ll put links below as well. 

Jamar: Yes, of course. So you guys follow me on YouTube obviously, and you can easily find me by either searching for Jamar Diggs or going to jamardiggs.com/youtube. Also, follow me on Instagram, @JamarDiggs, my Instagram stories are pretty cool. 

And starting your YouTube channel and just want it to be set up the right way I definitely want to invite everyone to download my YouTube Starter Guide, it’s an 18-ish minute video that f walks you through all of the backend stuff to make sure that you’re set up for success. 

Mallory: Awesome. It’s amazing. You guys, I have the starter kit, it’s amazing. You should go do that right now and then learn about the other ways that you can work with Jamar.

Jamar, thank you! I’m so excited for this to get released soon and just so grateful for you and all that you do to support mission-focused people, and organizations. So thank you.