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Real Talk: Honest Conversations on Business, Motherhood, and Everything In Between with Dana Snyder, Kishshana Palmer, and Becky Endicott

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“You need to find your squad. And if you’re not sure who that is, start with your values. Start with the people who make you laugh. Start with the people who make you feel safe. Start with the people who will tell you the truth. Those are your people.” ​​- Dana Snyder

Episode #189

Overview

In this episode of What the Fundraising Podcast…

Today, three inspirational figures, Dana Snyder, Kishshana Palmer, and Becky Endicott, join us for an unfiltered conversation about the realities behind balancing business, motherhood, and personal life. They are exceptional leaders, each dedicated to making a meaningful difference through their unique skills and passions!

 

Dana Snyder is the Founder and CEO of Positive Equation. As a passionate speaker, teacher, and podcast host, Dana dedicates her work to empowering nonprofits with the knowledge to use social media ads effectively. Her mission is to help organizations attract potential supporters and create sustainable giving models, building robust monthly giving programs that transform everyone into philanthropists.

 

Becky Endicott, CFRE, APR, is the Co-Founder and Chief Storyteller of We Are for Good and Co-Host of the We Are For Good Podcast. Becky is a master storyteller and a champion of kindness, celebrating philanthropy, seeking justice, endorsing humanity, pushing boundaries, and embracing people. Known for her authenticity, she often shares self-deprecating stories to forge genuine connections, understanding that true bonds are formed in moments of joy and in life’s messy and challenging times.

 

Kishshana Palmer, CFRE, is the CEO of ManageMint, Inc., a leadership consulting firm specializing in strategy, management, and growth. As a renowned keynote speaker, event host, TEDx alumnus, and trusted advisor to executive leaders, Kishshana brings real-world solutions and authentic, high-impact experiences to CEOs, senior leadership teams, organizations, companies, and solo entrepreneurs. Her expertise and vibrant personality make her a sought-after figure in leadership and management consulting.

 

Today’s discussion delves into the challenges and triumphs of these three influential women as they navigate their careers, personal development, and family dynamics. The episode also explores themes such as vulnerability, authenticity, the importance of supportive networks, and the misconception that success means perfection. Moreover, through candid stories and heartfelt advice, Dana, Kishshana, and Becky share how they manage the highs and lows, provide mutual support, and strive to maintain a balance in their multifaceted lives.

EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS

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ADDITIONAL RESOURCES

  • Many thanks to our sponsor, Keela for making this episode possible. Our friends at Keela offer nonprofits like yours comprehensive fundraising and donor management software, equipped with powerful tools to expand your reach, increase fundraising revenue, and foster a dedicated community of supporters. Want a user-friendly platform that provides actionable data? Look no further than Keela. Check out Keela at keela.co/mallory.

  • If you haven’t already, please visit our new What the Fundraising community forum. Check it out and join the conversation at this link.
  • If you’re looking to raise more from the right funders, then you’ll want to check out my Power Partners Formula, a step-by-step approach to identifying the optimal partners for your organization. This free masterclass offers a great starting point

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Donald Summers is the Founder & CEO of Altruist Partners, a global advisory firm for nonprofits and social enterprises. He and his firm have led scores of successful nonprofit and social enterprise accelerations from the local to the global level in the fields of education, human services, health, environmental reform, and public media. He is a graduate of Middlebury College and Harvard University.

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Episode Transcript

 

Becky Endicott: [00:00:00] That’s the hardest thing about running a business as a mom is I want my kids to be okay. I want the business to be okay. And I’m always going to put myself at the end of the equation. And now I am reorienting my whole life. To put me at the front of that equation because I know the kids are not going to soar unless I’m healthy.

Becky Endicott: The business is not going to soar unless I’m healthy.

Mallory Erickson: Hey, my name is Mallory and I’m obsessed with helping leaders in the nonprofit space raise money and run their organizations differently. What the fundraising is a space for real and raw conversations to both challenge and inspire you. Not too long ago, I was in your shoes. Uncomfortable with fundraising and unsure of my place in this sector.

Mallory Erickson: It wasn’t until I started to listen to other experts outside of the fundraising space, that I was able to shift my mindset and ultimately shift the way I show up as a leader. This podcast is my way of blending professional and personal [00:01:00] development. So we as a collective inside the nonprofit sector can feel good about the work we are doing.

Mallory Erickson: Join me every week as I interview some of the brightest minds in the personal and professional development space to help you fundamentally change the way you lead and fundraise. I hope you enjoy this episode. So let’s dive in. Welcome everyone to What the Fundraising. I am so excited to be here today with Kashana Palmer, Dana Snyder, Becky Endicott.

Mallory Erickson: I just clicked record with no introduction because you were just hatching up as we all jumped on the line, which felt like the right way to begin this podcast episode. We are all super close friends. We share a tech side. We are always going back and forth together between what’s going on in our businesses, what’s going on in our homes, with our families, with our kids.

Mallory Erickson: And I just sort of had this moment the other day where, when we were kind of like coaching each other around different challenges we were experiencing. And I just sort of had this moment of like, God, I wish people could like, [00:02:00] See the real, real behind the things that we all put out there. And even though I think everybody here is like open and transparent about a lot of what happens behind the scenes that makes themselves and their businesses go.

Mallory Erickson: I just think there’s no replacement for like us just getting real and honest about what it looks like to juggle and fumble business and motherhood and all the things. And so that is what we are here today to talk about. I 

Kishshana Palmer: love it. It’s like you said, 

Dana Snyder: fumble, 

Mallory Erickson: right? 

Kishshana Palmer: That’s real y’all. 

Dana Snyder: True life coming into this conversation.

Kishshana Palmer: Right. And I just want y’all to know, I thought I was out the game. I just want y’all to know.

Kishshana Palmer: I was like, I don’t want no children. I’m not getting married. I’m gonna have a, a mister, a companion who picks me up and takes me on nice cruises and drives me home. No, I was gonna live my life as a single lady of the city. And now, no, I’m [00:03:00] in love. I have an amazing boyfriend, fingers crossed things will move where we want them to go.

Kishshana Palmer: And I have a bonus kid who is seven and I expect motherhood at that stage. But now the boy. Oh, right. And I call girl mom all the time, and so it has been such an interesting, like, shift to like, how little boys work, and you know, what they think, and how they do, and he’s so loving, and he’s, his daddy sings to me, so he sings to me, like, it just is, he is the cutest thing ever.

Kishshana Palmer: Can I just tell y’all? Just the little squishy cutest thing ever. And smooth. 

Becky Endicott: You weren’t kidding when you said you were in love. I thought you were just talking about him though. But you’re talking about little man.

Kishshana Palmer: It’s the best. I haven’t made like afterschool sandwiches or anything in a long time. You know, I was pretty self sufficient now, 18 year old. And so I came home this afternoon, we got home from school and I was like, okay, for, do you want. A snack and he [00:04:00] was like, yeah, and I was like, can I make you a sandwich?

Kishshana Palmer: You want turkey or ham? He was like, turkey. I was like, cheese, no cheese. He’s like, no cheese. I was like, mayo, mustard. He was like, Ooh, who eats mustard? That’s the most plain sandwich. That’s like putting peanut butter on a slice of bread and give it to the baby. Yeah. And he was just. Um, just the light bonding, 

Becky Endicott: bonding over no gray Poupon.

Becky Endicott: Like we’re keeping it simple. 

Kishshana Palmer: Little sliced turkey and bread and mayo. I don’t think this is wonderful. I want the simplicity of that in my business. Okay. What a lucky little boy. I am back in it with y’all again. I thought I was out. I was like, haha, have fun y’all. Pull up to this table. 

Mallory Erickson: I love it. You know what, it’s such a like, important reminder, not just that you’re like, back in it, but like, all of us have kids of different ages, right?

Mallory Erickson: I just started college, like, Becky, you’re dealing with like middle school and high school and, you know, and I remember when we first started being in our [00:05:00] group chat, Dana hadn’t even had Kennedy yet. Right? Like I was juggling a two year old now, two little ones. And so we’re all like in different phases and places, but also have a lot of like common threads.

Mallory Erickson: I feel like between the moments when we feel really like Stretched and the things that we’re looking for that help like ground us and make us feel like okay We really can do it And so maybe like we definitely are gonna be honest about the things that makes that make our head explode But maybe we can like start with something positive around like what is that like when there’s all the craziness In your personal life, with your kids, running your businesses, like what are the things that like bring you back, ground you down, like help you kind of keep going?

Dana Snyder: Oh my gosh. Well, this is just so relevant, like a full circle because we just got to see each other at the Classy Collaborative and we both shared similar stories where I was leaving. This is just like kind of a mixture of all the things you just [00:06:00] asked. I was leaving and it was following. A very rough mother’s day where Kennedy was literally pooping her pants.

Dana Snyder: I remember that text. Yes. And I was like, what do I do as in pooping? Like all over me all day, basically. And so I was leaving Daniel with this child now, then Daniel ended up as, okay. And then literally as the Uber is arriving to my house, she. Pukes on me. I was like, cool. I’m going to go back and change real quick, everybody.

Dana Snyder: And my parents were also coming with me. They were going on a separate flight home. I was going to Chicago. I’ll be right back here. Daniel, here’s your baby. And then Mallory, once we got together, shared a similar, not sickness, As much story, but in having a four year old who’s learning that her mom, what her mom is doing and leaving and expressing that emotion and then write all of that happens and then you get to be in person with the most amazing energy at this event.

Dana Snyder: I mean, Mal and I were at a dinner. With Kelly [00:07:00] from AWS and Nathan Chappelle. And we were just laughing, like hard belly laughing. And then I was attending this amazing keynote session with this phenomenal I am ALS, like a founder who’s like deep struggling with ALS and then the mission that they’re on.

Dana Snyder: And it was just like, Yeah, this is why I leave and I do this work and I get to do community conversations around recurring giving. And these are the people who are trying to change these, like, issues that no one else is changing, right? Quite frankly, I think that’s why we all do what we do. And then get to, of course, come home and soak up the family time and just snuggles.

Dana Snyder: But I think that was kind of a full, like, hard mixed with the beautiful part. Of what we do and everybody’s good. And then I get to come home in love on this. So, so good. Yeah. 

Becky Endicott: What about you, Becky? Well, I could give you a, um, a different interpretation for a different season of life, because we were in Phoenix about this same time, the week before mother’s day, and we were hosting the responsive nonprofit summit, and I was.

Becky Endicott: [00:08:00] Trying to host a panel discussions while it may look like I have it all together, but in the background, you know, my husband cannot figure out where my youngest child Marie Curie outfit is because she’s doing the wax museum presentation and we’re trying to get the speech. And I’m like in between sessions, like check under the bed and don’t forget to iron it.

Becky Endicott: I mean, just like the little moments, because I think like, as a working mom, first of y’all, this work is whiplash all the time. Like the second that you have an incredible moment, like the next second could be you’re getting puked on. Or you’re getting an SOS text from your teenager, or we forgot something that needs to be run up to school.

Becky Endicott: That happened to me on Friday when I did not have time, but we made it work. And it’s just about like, how do I live in the moment where I’m at right now with the people I’m at? How do I give them my attention? [00:09:00] And at the end of the day, like. These two girls at my house are the two most important people in the world to me.

Becky Endicott: And so whatever is happening, no matter how big in my business, it is never going to be bigger than them. And so for me, that is the centering grounding that I want the little Marie Curie questions to come up. I want to know how you did on that science test. I want to know how tennis practice. Went, I want to know what was hard about today and what do we need to release out of today or what do we need to gripe about?

Becky Endicott: And I want all the little moments in between because they’re teaching me how freaking strong I am and how to model this kind of a life for my kids, which I honestly don’t think I’m doing a great job at entirely in the way that I want to, but learning. So what about you, Kish? I was on mute. Cause I was just like,

Dana Snyder: She was, her hands like on her chin. She’s just like. Taking in Becky. 

Kishshana Palmer: I know. Cause I get it, right? I do. I [00:10:00] spent it. Shout out to the teenager because you know, this kid has ridden river with me since darn near she was born. Like her dad and I got divorced. We’ll see if she appears. Chanel is over here. Um, I didn’t notice the dog was tucked in the corner.

Kishshana Palmer: Okay. She is literally a creep, you know? So we moved around. She spent a lot of time with my parents and my parents helped me raise her. She had to become really self sufficient really early. And so y’all have videos of her. I was showing it to, um, my bonus baby that I was like, look, you don’t need to be eating cereal because when Sanaa was your age, she was making eggs.

Kishshana Palmer: And I was like, here’s the video. You had her at the stove and I was like, yes, but the reality is like, I had to teach her how to, she can cook her face off now. It was crazy. I had to teach her these basic skills really early because I really wanted to make sure that she got those pieces of just being able to make her own way in the world.

Kishshana Palmer: And I continued to reinforce that with her, but I missed a lot of stuff. Like I remember we had this really hard conversation right before she graduated [00:11:00] high school. We were in, you know, Paris, we were, this was like her senior trip that I took her on for Christmas and New Year’s. And you know, she got to be a big girl and have a little sip of a little, a little thing or a little two each night.

Kishshana Palmer: And one of the nights we were talking, she said to me that she felt like she lived with her grandparents, but visited me, which was wild because She was with me every day. And so I was like, what are you talking about? So she was like, well, mom, you know, we wake up in the morning and you know, you get me dressed and do my breakfast and then drop me in school and then grandpa would pick me up from school and grandpa would take me to my activities.

Kishshana Palmer: And grandpa would do my homework and grandpa would feed me. And then you would pick me up and then you’d read me a story. And then we go back to sleep. And I was the one who made, I made, right. But I was also, but she wasn’t wrong. So from her perspective, she was a visitor in her own house. Her house was with her grandparents.

Kishshana Palmer: All right. And I just was like, I mean, that was like a, I was going to ask how 

Becky Endicott: that sat with you, my friend. It was like, she bitch slapped me in the face. 

Kishshana Palmer: I just want you to know. But it was in part because all was coming to my head. I [00:12:00] was flooded by these different memories of like racing from one part of the country to another, from taking red eyes to having my father like drive me home to switch suitcases to get them back on the thing so I could meet her bus for the school trip in a different state.

Kishshana Palmer: Like the number of things that I did. Because I was class mom and I was field trip mom from kindergarten until high school. And so I’m like, and my house is like the neighborhood drop in center. So I have a Costco bill of a family of five and I only have one kid. You was at the house. Cause my, my money shows that you were there, but he was like, I mean, Now we’ll care for and stuff, but am I right?

Kishshana Palmer: So it wasn’t until COVID at, she was in high school, that she and I actually got to spend an inordinate amount of time together, like all the time. And that’s my roadie, like that’s when I realized, like, I actually like my kid. I know there were a lot of parents who did not have that experience. And I didn’t have that experience when she was in middle school.

Kishshana Palmer: I thought I was [00:13:00] gonna lose her to the streets. Or to the grave, because I was going to take her ass out. 

Becky Endicott: Yeet. Feeling it. Thank you for speaking truth. Yes. Okay. 

Kishshana Palmer: That’s like, to the grave. You know? So I think for me now, it is trying to make sure that I don’t pivot so hard. With a new addition to our family and trying to understand what blending looks like when she’s going out the house, because I don’t want to have the experience that, oh, now mommy gets to be the mom and now, but I’m like, bro, I didn’t miss that’s not her lived experience with experiences.

Kishshana Palmer: Her mom on a plane. Her mom on the go. I was having to move me not being there me showing up at the yeah. PTA meeting, the last slot, you know, trying to get in. So I made everything, but it was like, Ooh, my camera dropped. But it was like, but at what expense? At what cost? I don’t want to do that again. So those are some of the things that I’m thinking about making, like, when I’m just like, okay.

Kishshana Palmer: And then lastly, how do I make this transition? What I’m trying to understand is how to move from, you know, I was definitely a, an Apache mom. Okay. That [00:14:00] helicopter was and she knows it. And. To go from that to her having to really exercise independence and then her having to learn like, um, this is the time you should have called home.

Kishshana Palmer: Not, not that time, but this time you, you having a little blonde streak going on over there. Like something’s going on. Your brain is, what’s happening. So making that transition and you see, I will see that. And you’re seeing that now over and over again, as are. Babies grow, and it changes who you are as a woman.

Mallory Erickson: Okay, you just said something in there that I feel like is so, there’s so many things you said in there that I kind of want to double click on, but I just had this experience on Saturday. We were leaving a party to go to Emmy’s ballet recital, and we like, it was really far away from each other. San Francisco traffic’s crazy.

Mallory Erickson: Like, trying to get Isla in the car, she’s starting to scream and pass out, like, I’m trying to say goodbye, but, like, everybody wants to say goodbye for, like, the 18th time, and I’m, like, finally get out the [00:15:00] door, and I’m, like, booking it to the car, and I did not notice how steep the driveway was. And Emmy started running after me and ate it, like fell hard and took like some big chunks out of her legs and her feet and her pants and her like, you know, this is before like her first ever ballet performance.

Mallory Erickson: She is screaming, screaming like you weren’t waiting for me. I wanted to hold your hand just like, you know, like literally like guilt, just like get in there. But then I was sitting like later that night, she was fine and we figured it out and it was okay and we bandaged her up and she didn’t notice that she was bleeding through her tights right before she went on stage and so, you know, everything was fine.

Mallory Erickson: But I, but I was sitting there later that night and talking about it with somebody, cause then we went back to the party, long story, anyways, and I was saying, you know, like, yeah, you know, I really want to get like better at, um, like walking slower and [00:16:00] like being more mindful. Cause I’m a very like. fast walker and like part of it’s my ADHD, right?

Mallory Erickson: I need to like complete the thing and like get there. And, and I was like, I just want to be more like mindful of like her movement kind of through the world and like how I, and then the mom who I was talking to sort of jumped in and was like, you know what, you’re doing the best you can and dah, dah, dah, dah, dah.

Mallory Erickson: And I was like, yes, like, I’m not like shame spiraling around it. Like, or I said something like I made a mistake and I was like, I should have been more mindful. Like, I wish I had been more mindful of her, like walking to the car. And they like kind of jumped in to defend me, to, to me, and I was like, no, no, I’m not like shame spiraling, but like, I did make a mistake.

Mallory Erickson: Like, I should have been more mindful. That was a steep driveway. I was focused on the wrong thing. It doesn’t mean I need to sit here and beat myself up and call myself a horrible mom, and like, you know, Be deep in that shame hole. But like, I think it’s okay for me to say like, Yeah, next time I want to do something differently.

Mallory Erickson: And Becky, when you were talking, you said something like, I’m not always doing it right. And I feel like, [00:17:00] Kish, you’re like grappling with some of those things too. And I feel like that’s such an important space for us to talk about. Like, how we create space to like, grow and not be okay with everything that we’ve done, but also not go into the like, I’m a bad mom, like, you know, space.

Mallory Erickson: What do you think about that? I 

Dana Snyder: mean, you know, I’ve had a lot of conversations with you about questioning having another with like, what would work look like? What would our family look like? And it’s like, part of me so desperately, I mean, there’s complications there, but So desperately wants another, and then I’m just like, would I even want to work anymore?

Dana Snyder: Like the true obsession. I mean, I just have, she’s 13 months, right? So I’m not in the depths of, I know it’s just going to get harder to parent. I think there’s just like, I love how kiss you ended it. We’re like re getting to know, I am really getting to know yourself, but like changing, evolving as a woman and also the needs and the things I, and also to your point about [00:18:00] running.

Dana Snyder: And they’ve always been a hustler. It’s always been my mentality. I’ve been very much like people meet me and they think you’re from New York. And I loved living in New York. Like that was me. That’s what I always, like my drive was about. And then having Kay, like sometimes I just don’t care. I’m like, yeah, I just want to sit in your playpen with you and put, throw my phone across the room and read.

Dana Snyder: 20 books, mostly the same book over and over and over again. 

Becky Endicott: Harold and the purple crayon again. 

Kishshana Palmer: I was the opposite and I will send you now the article I wrote. Something I was small. It was a blog post about how I’m a three hour mama. And so this is for moms and for caregivers who have not had that experience.

Kishshana Palmer: So I was, I did not want to be in her, in her crib. I love that girl. Y’all know I love that girl bad. Yeah, you 

Becky Endicott: do. 

Kishshana Palmer: But baby, let me tell you what. If I had to say one more word with explanation to a baby, And I didn’t, we didn’t do any Google Gaga talk. We talked straight words. Like I was very into the social emotional learning aspect of that for her.

Kishshana Palmer: And also just wanted to be my adult friends. And so I did really [00:19:00] well between five o’clock and eight o’clock just, I was like on it and on the weekends I could do one activity I could not do back to back dance, swimming, I had to hand it off to my dad. Like I just. I was like, I need out. And it wasn’t that I was escaping from her.

Kishshana Palmer: It was like the screaming kids, the people that didn’t parent the way I did. I don’t coddle my kid. Like, I just was like, sis, stand up. Like I remember one time and listen, y’all don’t judge me. She grown now. Okay. She made it up. She made it out the parenthood. We’re not judging you for anything, but either way, what I’m saying is one time in the supermarket.

Kishshana Palmer: She was about three, so I had just, like, hidden her patsy of what I hoped for good. And so we were talking at that supermarket, and so we’re walking up and down. I had done a good job of, of avoiding the baby aisles that had the pacifiers. But this one time, I made a left to cut through and to get to another section, and what aisle do y’all think I cut through on?

Becky Endicott: Binky 

Kishshana Palmer: fever![00:20:00] 

Kishshana Palmer: And I was like, and I just walked away, just left the child in the aisle. She’s having a whole meltdown. I walked off. And I remember overhearing some other lady that like, Oh my God, she just leave her child in the aisle. And I’ll turn around. I did, you know, um, I tell you, I started to say, like, I just didn’t have, I thought I was going to have all of the stuff.

Kishshana Palmer: Like I was going to want to do her hair and I was going to want to do this. And I was terrible at the things I thought I was going to be good at and then really good at the things I thought that sucked. And so it was a mixed bag for me. So I used to feel really guilty when other moms, they’d be like, oh my God, I just want to be all day.

Kishshana Palmer: And I was like, why? You know, like, I mean, what about you time, mama? But I had to squash that, right? Like, because that’s not the expectation. And so then I’m trying to redirect that into work, right? And try to figure out how to do that balance. And I just basically felt conflicted all the time. So, no, they, to your point, I actually am now at the, the good, right?

Kishshana Palmer: Mid forties. [00:21:00] Um, really starting to understand who I am in the world and who I am as a person for me and not for performance and motherhood is performance. 

Becky Endicott: Less is more. 

Kishshana Palmer: Ooh. Good. 

Becky Endicott: Okay. I’m going to jump in here. Even though I usually hate following Kish because she just dropped so many wisdom bombs. I’m like, damn it.

Becky Endicott: You’re going to sound like an, an intelligible idiot. Um, let me back it up and say like my motivations in motherhood were a little bit different because I had suffered from infertility for so long. And so going into. Wanting to be a mother for so long and then building it up in your head. If I could get it, if it happens, this is what I’m going to be.

Becky Endicott: And this is how I’m going to show up. And the thing is, when you project that you don’t factor yourself into the equation, like, what am I going to do for me, you know, to keep myself focused and keep my heart full and to keep my curiosity going. And so when we [00:22:00] finally did get pregnant. We’ve got two little infertility miracles at my house.

Becky Endicott: Uh, they’re 13 and 10 and I love my daughters. And have we all said, like, we all have daughters. So when we have conversations, it’s like some fiery girl, kind of all the emotions. Thankfully, not a lot of the drama, but yeah, I kind of just, Lost myself a little bit straight into motherhood when it happened.

Becky Endicott: And at the same time I was becoming a mom, I just have to like lift what you said, uh, Mal, maybe it’s because we both have ADHD and I just recognize it so well, is that I really prided myself on being able to do so many things at one time. I mean, I’m already an achiever. I’m already a massive multitasker.

Becky Endicott: I love efficiency, so I want everything to run and hum in a really, you know, clean way. But the reality is, I’m talking to my husband about this a couple weeks ago. Like he says, I’m at a hundred percent and you’re at [00:23:00] a hundred percent. And I’m like, honey, there is nothing a hundred percent about what I do.

Becky Endicott: You may be at a hundred percent. But I’m at 260 percent because I’m doing a hundred percent with the job. I’m doing a hundred percent with the kids and I’m doing 60 percent with the home. And I lost myself in the equation. I think for the first eight years that I was a mom, because I threw it. All into getting into the play pen and all into making the business great.

Becky Endicott: And, and I absolutely forgot myself and it has taken what you three know is this big metamorphosis that I am on to shed the skin of what I thought I needed to be, to become who I wanted to be. And that has been. A very interesting journey for me also in my mid forties. 

Dana Snyder: Yeah, I think this is also just like real real for listeners Like these are things that we text about and just checking in and being like you okay?

Becky Endicott: Yeah, 

Dana Snyder: you know and like thank god for it too and [00:24:00] sending back and forth audio messages. I think this is the power of having people who you can just like unapologetically reach out to when it’s just like I’m feeling a certain way. 

Kishshana Palmer: And if we did it across all the things, right? Like it’s not just about a motherhood, I think is a very large component.

Kishshana Palmer: And typically when I talk, particularly if I’m on stage, like I talk about caregiving, cause I realized there are lots of, Folks who either didn’t want to have children or are still struggling with that. Um, like I was not able to have a live birth after SNAI, and it wasn’t for lack of trying. And so, but I don’t even talk about it because I’m like, well, them, them angels is gone with the wind.

Kishshana Palmer: I’m not gonna do about that. But I had a therapist recently who told me that I should mourn the ones that ain’t make it. And I was like, for what? They really ain’t make it that far. And she’s like, no, but like, Kashana, like you’re holding on to that. You know, even in the way you’re moving in this way and that way and that way, and I was like, Oh, she was making this connective tissue.

Kishshana Palmer: And I said, Oh, hell, I try to be cognizant of that. But a lot of us are caregiving and depending on how old we are, we’re also sandwiched because we’re caregiving on one end for some little young person, baby or another, and our parents or in laws or older siblings, or, you [00:25:00] know, lots of us are uncovering our disease that has been living in our body for a really long time.

Kishshana Palmer: And it’s showing up in things that were ignored. And so, You know, the performative behavior that each of us had, I’m sure, growing up, that people were like, Yes! We’re like, psych, ADHD. Minus post traumatic stress, which mimics ADHD, right? Like, so, we were running ourselves ragged before we were running ourselves ragged.

Kishshana Palmer: And how do we expect to keep up that pace and also to be able to let others in to the other parts of us when that’s the thing that we’re socialized to be good at? 

Dana Snyder: Hmm. Oh, that’s so true. Yeah. 

Mallory Erickson:

Dana Snyder: mean, 

Mallory Erickson: I just think about like, what is it that we’re all willing to talk about the stuff that goes really poorly, like really poorly, that allows us to maybe feel more.

Mallory Erickson: Yeah. Yeah. Like safe then to share it back and forth with each other. I mean, I, I just think about [00:26:00] like, yeah, 

Becky Endicott: yes. I’m not speaking for you ladies over there, but I’m speaking for myself. Yes.

Kishshana Palmer: Here’s what’s really happening. I was just like, y’all ass. So here we go. Y’all like, here’s some solutions. It’s working. Or you 

Becky Endicott: just get the rage of the sustainable sisterhood. Who’s going to sit there and say that sucks with you. And you have every reason to feel angry about that or tired or whatever.

Dana Snyder: And as much as it’s that way, it’s also on the like amazing stuff too. Yeah. Right. I also want to say like, we’re also the biggest cheerleaders and supporters for what we do collectively and individually. And that’s just as like epic, like not only the sharing the mom stuff. I remember, I think I shared like Kennedy’s first steps with you guys.

Dana Snyder: And I was like, so excited to share that in the same way as like anything workwise. And I went through the first, I was like, so excited to like meet Isla and get the first photos in the right. It’s just like on [00:27:00] both ways, like collectively there to like. Pick each other up and give like the hard shit advice when we need it and collectively be like what the legit hell just happened.

Dana Snyder: And then on the flip side, also be like, yeah, I got you on celebrating all the amazing stuff too. I just want to make sure that listeners know we’re not just like a text chain of bitching. Very good things in there. 

Kishshana Palmer: I just want to say for folks who have the bitching text, text chain, if this is your season, you know, cause we just, there’s a, there’s a respectability that we are.

Kishshana Palmer: You know, it’s like, it feels like, um, quicksand. You know, we have to present a certain way as professionals. We have to present a certain way as thought leaders. Then we have to present a certain way when we’re partnered. And we have to present a certain way so that people can go, Oh, look at how good of a mom she is.

Kishshana Palmer: Or they just sort of like lightweight, hate us and don’t say anything out loud. Right. I [00:28:00] have not made it yet y’all. Cause I have not had the choice.

Kishshana Palmer: I think we’ll go work in the world. But I think that both those things can be true. I love that. You know, just making sure that people know that we try to really have balance and don’t hide behind the ugly stuff. Because, you know, we could tell that your skin breaking out girl, like we can see it. So just.

Kishshana Palmer: Let us help you with the retinol and whatever else you 

Mallory Erickson: need. Yeah. You know, there’s this, I interviewed this woman a while ago on the podcast, Carol Robin, who wrote this book connect building exceptional relationships. And she used to teach this Stanford, this class at Stanford business school that was known as like touchy feely.

Mallory Erickson: And she talks about these like elements of connection. And one of the things that’s on is like, that, you know, that. Your, like, sharing disclosures won’t be weaponized against you. And so there’s, like, something that you’re, like, saying, Dana, which is not just that, like, [00:29:00] we celebrate the good stuff and we’re there for the bad stuff, but we also don’t, like, intermingle them in ways that feel like we’re weaponizing the misogynist.

Mallory Erickson: in whatever part of ourselves with like anything else. Like it’s like we let ourselves like be seen for those things. We share them. We’re real about them, but then it’s not like it doesn’t come up later. And Kish, something I think you’re so good at, like kind of like coaching us around or like just thinking about in your own, you know, life and work.

Mallory Erickson: are like the seasons like I remember saying to you the last time I think we were together in person like I’m so sorry I like wasn’t present during this last season and you know you were like yeah dude you were like very sick and then had a baby and then like you know had kind of your own season but I was like yeah but like I wasn’t as present as I wish I could have been and yeah at the time I didn’t feel the capacity like in my six times of vomiting a day to like be super [00:30:00] present But you’re so good, Kish, I think at, like, seeing the whole picture and, like, reminding us of the whole picture and giving grace and space to seasons and just knowing, like, when you pick, like, friends for life or people you’re gonna actually be on a journey with, that you’re not looking to help boost you for this one thing or do you this one favor or sit with you in this one moment.

Mallory Erickson: Then you can go through seasons where sometimes you’re all super present. Sometimes some of you aren’t as present. Sometimes you’re going through challenges at the same time. And it’s like, you figure out ways to like, come back to each other. 

Becky Endicott: Yeah, I would just echo and say Kish is the master at all of that, but I do think the way that the three of you show up for this group for me is so beautiful and unique in your own superpowers.

Becky Endicott: And what you bring and give, and there are times when you all know, this has just been a crazy journey with We Are For Good. It continues to be the craziest journey ever. And we’re just holding on with our fingertips as [00:31:00] everybody is, I feel like, in whatever their journey is. And there are times I will not even respond to that text for like, And you all have sent, you know, 25 texts with 25 suggestions.

Becky Endicott: And I’ll tell you at the beginning, I was feeling like, Oh, I need to get in at night and respond and contribute. So I’m not just taking from this group. And then it was like, Oh no, you don’t have to do that. Thank you. Kish like for saying, show up when you can, where you can, however you can and come as yourself.

Becky Endicott: It was like, Oh, oof. So this can be a place of exhale. This doesn’t have to be a place where I have to show up. And that feels pretty darn good to me. So thanks ladies. 

Kishshana Palmer: I love that. And I feel like, I think I remember this text comes up. This was a couple of years ago though. And I was like, are we really going to be friends or not?

Kishshana Palmer: Know how to engage, you know, You know, and I think that what I want more women, and I think our sect, [00:32:00] I call our sector, even though I’m sure women across lots of sectors are experiencing some version of this, but I just want us to be unafraid to say the thing. 

Becky Endicott: Yeah. 

Kishshana Palmer: Right. So even just to say like, I’m just going to name this and they all heard this, this, and this, it makes my stomach hurt.

Kishshana Palmer: Also, if I don’t say this, my head and my stomach is not hurt and we don’t need this kind of pain, let’s talk about it because, and what is at the root of that for me is the fear of being abandoned is the fear of letting people down is the fear of not being good enough of being excluded. I used to make this joke, which I no longer make that I was the least popular girl in the most popular clique.

Kishshana Palmer: And so I ran with the popular girls, but I wasn’t the popular, most popular one. I wasn’t the prettiest one. I was probably the smartest one, but I wasn’t the things. And I remember my boyfriend saying to me there, why do you keep leading with what you weren’t? And I was like, first of all, you’re loud

Kishshana Palmer: I believe you said that, . But you need friends who can allow [00:33:00] you to have that moment where you’re like, you’re loud also. Okay, what are we gonna do about it again? And also, and that we have to cultivate those relationships. And you do not, in my opinion. Cultivate those relationships without being able to be truthful.

Kishshana Palmer: And you can be, you can be kind and truthful, right? You can, you can talk about a thing and not about a person. And I think that that’s one of the things that I’ve learned from y’all because we’ve had lots of conversations. I mean, particularly during the COVID and all the height of the faux DEI. Oh, geez.

Kishshana Palmer: Yeah. We should talk about that. We had so many different conversations and I, what, what always sticks out to me is the like pivotal, are we really friends or not? Cause I’m going to say some stuff and it might make y’all uncomfortable and y’all say some stuff that’s going to make me uncomfortable, but I still love y’all.

Kishshana Palmer: So we’re just to thug it out. Okay. And we need to be able to say that as a memoir to me, just to be able to name whatever it is and to trust that the performance. That we are not abandoning ourselves. So worrying about being abandoned is actually not a thing and that we [00:34:00] really need to work on self trust in order to build trust with other groups to have that support.

Kishshana Palmer: And you see it in other spaces. You see it sometimes in faith based spaces. You see it sometimes in social circles or social organizations, that kind of stuff, but it is possible to do it right where you are. And I think that’s something that I want to make sure that if folks are like yearning for. Like who’s going to be for me in this season?

Kishshana Palmer: The probability is high. You already have who is for you. 

Mallory Erickson: Yeah. I love that you talked about that. Like we, like our conversations have not always been comfortable either collectively or individually. Like we’ve navigated a lot of complicated things together in a short amount of years, and we’ve had to bring forward things that worked or didn’t work or need to work a different way.

Mallory Erickson: And I feel like. We have been really committed to like each other’s learning and growth and like belief that we have the same North Star. We also have really [00:35:00] different lived experiences that have brought us to like the moment on our journey that we’re on. But I think we like given grace and space but not excuses.

Mallory Erickson: And we’ve like really held each other accountable in important ways and I’m like really grateful for that because I think that also has like led to a sense of safety way more so than if people are kind of just saying positive things like even in the like we were chatting about like a book thing for me the other day and I was like y’all I feel like I’m in an echo chamber like Somebody just gave me hard feedback.

Mallory Erickson: I want that. Like I need that, you know? And so, and I think we do really try to do that for, for each other too. 

Becky Endicott: So much of that. And I know Mal, you’re going to laugh. And if you want to cut this, you totally can cut this. But you know, one of my biggest scarcity issues is I’m from the middle of freaking Oklahoma and I love my Oklahoma homies.

Becky Endicott: We’re great, but the conservative evangelicalness of [00:36:00] all of this means that I have got a much longer journey in some ways to unwind some of this unlearning that I didn’t even realize was so ingrained within me, even though I want to rage against it. And. You all have been such a safe space to hold me in that, to take away the fears.

Becky Endicott: Here’s the part I said you could cut. I mean, there was a point I was like, Mal, you and I should just start a podcast called the Hick and the Jew. And we should just talk about shit together. Like, I don’t know what it would be, just let’s, let’s talk out in the open about what the hell we know and what it all is, but I just think that I feel safer with you three and speaking.

Becky Endicott: Things about my life and my fears and my hopes than I do with people I’ve known for 35 years. 

Dana Snyder: Oh my god, so true. So true. I, like, I always go back to this. I remember, I also think, this is, again, like, this is like a whole deep thing. I feel like we intrinsically all met each other for a [00:37:00] purpose and a greater calling.

Dana Snyder: And I remember vividly my third round of IVF, IVF networking. One, Mallory was visiting me for one of the rounds and I was so upset driving her to the airport, airport on the call with insurance that she took over the phone conversation for me because I couldn’t like get words together for what was happening.

Dana Snyder: And then I had another phone call. With Becky, who I called uncontrollably bawling, trying to give myself a shot that I couldn’t do. And she like, ran into the closet to be able to like, calm me down. And then being able to share on our text thread about literally what is happening in the real, real. And like, in Kish having one child and me just having one child and being like, you can have.

Dana Snyder: Like one’s great. And like those here in Atlanta kind of doing what you’re talking about, societal pressures. I went to a dinner and it was around the table and it was like, how many kids do you have? Two, three, four, three, five. I was like one. And then the automatic question is when are you having your next one?

Dana Snyder: Have to have her before they get to. And I’m just like [00:38:00] that wild. Yes. And I was just like, this is not, yeah, safety realness. like respect and none of that. I don’t know how I met y’all, but thank God, like powers that be decided to like intersect our lives is amazing. And which by the way, Kish and I both now live in Atlanta, Georgia.

Kishshana Palmer: We cannot, we cannot power and change away for lunch. Right. I’m like, Oh, this is gonna be great. I’m going to work downtown and Lola. Then I have a client thing. They were like, Oh, no, you need to fly here in the morning. And so I was like, Oh, the, the, the morning and not, not virtual on Wednesday. Oh, I had to like, do all this stuff.

Kishshana Palmer: I had to prep this morning. So also I wanted to do to be able to fly out in the morning. I was like, I was supposed to be at the house. We 

Dana Snyder: have tried. I don’t even know how many times. It’s gonna happen. 

Kishshana Palmer: It’s gonna happen. 

Dana Snyder: We’re 

Kishshana Palmer: gonna 

Dana Snyder: have a sleepover is what’s gonna happen. 

Kishshana Palmer: But you’re not the only one, though.

Kishshana Palmer: Like, literally, I’ve had other girlfriends who live up north who literally have just slept [00:39:00] over at my house. Cause they’re like, either you come up here, which I will, or, and just stay. Cause what is the point? I was like, I’ll just stay. I’ll bring my own blanket. You know, like, 

Dana Snyder: it just We’ll have your daughter watch Kennedy, and then we’ll go out.

Dana Snyder: Number one, that is actually a great plan. Yes. 

Kishshana Palmer: Yes. She’s going to want to get paid. Okay. So 

Dana Snyder: she can totally get 

Kishshana Palmer: paid. 

Becky Endicott: She’s providing a service. We’ve had many of these conversations about getting paid for service. 

Kishshana Palmer: She’s not about to use the word hustling. I would say she’s not hustling, but I agree with you about the aspect of safety and it is hard.

Kishshana Palmer: And y’all know I’ve had a real struggle. With trust and trusting other women, not just not in our group at all, but like with other white women that I’ve been friends with, we had, I remember that time we had a conversation and I was like, y’all need to read this book. If you want to be my friend, right?

Kishshana Palmer: Like I was good by the way, so good. Oh my God. I was so on some other stuff with it, you know, and I had to like dial myself back, but they have so much professional hurt that I conflated with [00:40:00] personal hurt, um, and because my profile was so visible, it just felt like everything was 10 times bigger than it probably was.

Kishshana Palmer: And I had to start telling myself, Shanna, you cannot expect you of other people. And then I had to do another double click on that, which was, and why are you doing this anyway? I’m trying to get props, accolades, thanks, a payback, a favor, you know, like, because what is the subconscious thing that is driving me to twist myself into a pretzel?

Kishshana Palmer: And it has been so interesting to be able to start to say no, or no, I’m gonna do it, but, or whatever. And that to me was hardest to do in my girlfriend relationships. Um, it was actually not as hard as my girlfriend relationships. Super hard. You’re not coming. You’re not flying here. You’re not going to the Cancun.

Kishshana Palmer: Bro, I’m trying to pay my mortgage. Like in college. So that I think just our group, our crew has really provided that space for me to just not have to worry about those things, particularly because I could talk to you about what was happening. in other places and get some [00:41:00] reflection on how I need to move and things I need to think about.

Kishshana Palmer: And I think it encourages us to just be honest with yourself about yourself. Right. We don’t shy away from the hard conversations. Yeah. 

Mallory Erickson: And, and I think we don’t make ourselves compartmentalize our pieces of who we are. And that makes such a difference. You know, because it’s like, I don’t want business advice from somebody who doesn’t understand all the pieces of me.

Mallory Erickson: Like even, even in our group, when we first started texting as a group, before Dana had Kennedy and before voice memos were transcribed, I remember telling you guys, y’all I’m struggling. Like I wake up and there’s all these voice memos and I have a two year old who screams at me the moment she hears sound come out of my phone and then I can’t.

Mallory Erickson: Keep up like I can’t, you know, and I feel like there were, but I felt safe enough to say that, like I’m feeling behind, I’m feeling like I can’t keep up. You know, we keep daycare keeps getting canceled and I have no time to listen to all this stuff. And [00:42:00] I just feel like we’ve let, you know, all of our challenges aren’t all the same, even though we resonate in certain areas together or have like some shared experience, but we give each other the space to be like, Hey.

Mallory Erickson: There’s this whole other part of my life that’s like interfering with my ability to do this other thing and we don’t make ourselves like remove it in order to do the thing, you know, and I mean, I feel like that, you know, when I went to the IVF thing with Dana, like I was coming in town to speak, we had planned a week, a day where we were going to do business stuff together all day.

Mallory Erickson: She was in the middle of this round and I was like, screw it. We’re going to get mani pedis. Yeah. Yeah, that was the right move. And I took the Uber straight to the fertility clinic and like sat there with her and then we like had a day together and then I dealt with insurance and it’s like, and like, but that like is, that is like the most important thing I could have done for my friend.

Mallory Erickson: It’s also, I think the most important thing I could have done for her business, believe it or not, [00:43:00] you know, I agree. Like, it’s just like, because it’s all the same All 

Becky Endicott: encompassing. It’s all the same. 

Dana Snyder: All the same. And then to randomly, at that moment, not know that you would end up going through IVF two months later.

Mallory Erickson: Also, Becky’s closet really should have had a cameo in this. We just had Becky closet convos, and I have a picture on my phone somewhere of Becky’s closet. When I, when I went through IVF and then, you know, they, my clinic like took a really long time before they would test me and I was like losing my mind.

Mallory Erickson: And they’re like, don’t take an at home test. They can be false. They can be false. They can be false. I’m texting Becky. I’m like having a panic attack. I’m like, I’m texting Becky. And she was like, Just take the damn test. Like, I’m here for you. Let’s just do it together. I’ll stay on the phone. I’ll be on the phone.

Mallory Erickson: Becky in her closet. 

Becky Endicott: My girls know my closet is my sanctuary. If that door is closed, you stay, you stay back because I [00:44:00] am crying in there and I’m feeling my feelings. I am. Consulting. I am taking a hot minute for myself. There is a lot that can be done in the closet, but it’s like, God, you just need your people sometimes.

Becky Endicott: And sometimes I don’t need business advice. Sometimes I just need my friend to tell me back away from the computer, that email. Can wait. You’re not okay. I feel that you’re not okay. And I think that’s the hardest thing about running a business as a mom is I want my kids to be okay. I want the business to be okay.

Becky Endicott: And I’m always going to put myself at the end of the equation. And now I am reorienting my whole life to put me at the front of that equation, because I know the kids are not going to unless I’m healthy. The business is not going to soar unless I’m healthy. And to have a space where I can just come with you amazing ladies and gripe about something or pitch a [00:45:00] question or, I mean, we were all up in Kish’s book cover the other day and throwing opinions down.

Becky Endicott: And I just think the highs and lows. 

Dana Snyder: I love this because we are also in a public facing role in what we do. We all speak, we’re all on stages. I think there’s this idea of, cause you’re on a stage, you’re just, life is picturesque. Shocker. Welcome to this podcast episode. Trainwreck every day over here, y’all.

Dana Snyder: I mean, that’s another great point of talking about. We are all up in her book cover. We’re talking about equity when it comes to speaking. We’re talking about our program, like, All, basically, anything and everything is fair game. Anything 

Kishshana Palmer: and everything y’all see on the internet as we have discussed. I mean, and to keep it real, like, people are like, Oh my God, Kashana, you’re so fabulous.

Kishshana Palmer: Whatever. I was like, look, my bedroom looks like the back of the Goodwill right now. The way in which I have five suitcases laid on the floor and my poor, my poor child [00:46:00] and boyfriend just be tip toeing y’all over it, like, pretending because the rest of the house is clean, right? And bedroom’s not dirty, but it is a, I mean, you know, My house is a real mess.

Kishshana Palmer: Goodwill or the Salvation Army drop off and you’d be trying to stuff the piles on the piles and the stuff be falling out everywhere you’re still trying to get it because I’m determined. I’m determined to have the perfect closet. 

Becky Endicott: And I remember this, that was on your hunt when you were looking 

Kishshana Palmer: and I had a very, very, very terrible contractor who was a complete shyster and set me back so far.

Kishshana Palmer: I’m still navigating dealing with his insurance company and yet, like I realized how much I think you said this earlier, but like things having to be a certain way, like how much order is so important to me in order to get things done. And I had this idea about, I was like, maybe I should just show people what my closet look like so they can leave me alone and stop thinking I’m perfect, because I’m not, you [00:47:00] know, so there’s that, to your point Dana, there’s this idea that we are just living this like picturesque life and the reality is, no, there have been some very, you know, novella type things that have occurred to me.

Dana Snyder: Yeah, 

Kishshana Palmer: novella is a good word. It’s not the Truman Show over here, not in these parts of Georgia. Yeah. 

Mallory Erickson: And you know, we’re, we’re recording this. May is Mental Health Awareness Month, right? And we’re recording this in May. And see, I never know the months. I’m like, is it a day? Is it a week? Is it the whole month?

Mallory Erickson: Okay, it’s the whole month. So, and I think like, it’s really important that we’re like, having this conversation in this month, because I feel like, When it comes to mental health conversations, they’re sort of like, they get kind of polarized or binary, like you’re well, or you’re dealing with mental health challenges.

Mallory Erickson: And I think as working moms, business owners, humans, like our mental wellness is like always a moving target with the variables of the day and the elements and. I feel like part [00:48:00] of what we’ve created in our friendship and in our group is like a constant to like ride the waves together and nobody is one or the other.

Mallory Erickson: We are just like in these constant evolutions of this. So I don’t know, I know we could talk literally forever and I kind of want to just come over and have that sleepover but maybe we could. Me too, 

Becky Endicott: FOMO. I know. 

Mallory Erickson: Come to Atlanta for the, your book. Oh, that’s true. Sleepover in October. Can I 

Becky Endicott: brag on my three friends who are all getting books out this fall?

Becky Endicott: Like I am so stinking proud of you ladies. I, my heart is exploding with pride for you ladies. I have seen how hard you have worked on your books in the background. You all have walked through. Some hell to get these books through. And I just want to denote it on this podcast that not only are you running your businesses and being moms, but you are [00:49:00] authors and you’re about to put something so beautiful into the world.

Becky Endicott: And I am coming from Oklahoma to Atlanta, to this sleepover, to this book party, because I don’t want to miss it. And I’m so stinking proud of all of you girls for the way that you pour into the world. Girls, women, whatever. 

Dana Snyder: Says, says the woman who has done. What? 600 podcast episodes in like two years?

Dana Snyder: That’s why I don’t have time to write a book. So we’ll 

Becky Endicott: work it out. Someday. I’m just going to ebook that whole thing. I’ll just slap it. Episode 1 to 600. Slap. I’m 

Kishshana Palmer: kidding. 

Becky Endicott: I’m 

Kishshana Palmer: kidding. I’m kidding. I’m kidding. I’m kidding. I’m kidding. I’m kidding. Because I promise you I was editing a chapter last night. And I was like, God, this doesn’t sound like me.

Kishshana Palmer: And I’m thinking, why doesn’t it sound like me? I was like, not enough curse words. And I was like, Oh, and we just had this conversation about profanity. The truth of the matter is that when I was in third grade, I heard the F word for the first time from a fifth grader and it sounded like glory.[00:50:00] 

Kishshana Palmer: My parents stopped punishing me for cursing. 

Dana Snyder: Oh my God. That’s hilarious. 

Kishshana Palmer: I mean, I used to be like, uh huh, uh huh. Yeah. You know,

Mallory Erickson: isn’t the hardest part of motherhood, keeping a straight face when you’re accidentally swears. I texted the other day, I was sitting in Emmy’s room and she said, she thought she was going to say bucket, but she did not. And then she said, and then I was like, wait, what? And she was like, I meant to say bucket.

Mallory Erickson: But I said, And then she kept saying that over and over and over again. And finally I was just like, um, okay, so that’s actually another word. And then I was just like, in my head, I was being transported back to my first grade self where I got sent to the principal’s office for doing the same thing. Same thing.

Mallory Erickson: I like made something rhyme and accidentally dropped the F word and I’m sitting in the principal’s office and he’s trying to reprimand me and I must have looked like a fricking deer in [00:51:00] headlights because finally he realizes that I have no idea what the word is, and he just like sends me back to class.

Mallory Erickson: And I went home and was like, what is this thing? Like I think I’m in trouble, but I dunno. Why ? 

Becky Endicott: Oh, that makes me wanna hug you. My cheeks hurt. 

Dana Snyder: Both 

Becky Endicott: my kids have used that word and as young kids and every single time it is the most hilarious and I do not poke her face. I just, I’m that mom that does not poke her face.

Becky Endicott: I go with it and I laugh. So 

Kishshana Palmer: when she was little was okay. So I was like, I don’t want you using those words to me. Okay. I know you and your friends. I know y’all are doing it. Okay. But I would like you to have command of multi slavic words at the same time as a well placed F bomb. You know, sometimes there’s only that word with Duke, but I need you to also be able to dress somebody down with the good Kings James.

Kishshana Palmer: Oh [00:52:00] my God. Can 

Dana Snyder: your next book please be a manual of all of these? Like 

Kishshana Palmer: Iterations. They’re so good. I promise you. Oh my God. 

Mallory Erickson: Oh, okay. I love y’all so much. Can I ask you to leave folks with just like one like word or final sentence around like your recommendation to everyone who’s like listening to this, who are going to go out there and maybe like try to find their people or, or maybe try to see.

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