WHAT THE FUNDRAISING

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The Power of Multi-Channel Fundraising with Dan Sonners

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“The world is interconnected; donors are everywhere these days. So, chances are no matter what you do or what you specialize in, there is some other channel or technique that can complement it and make what you do more valuable.” – Dan Sonners

Episode #188

Overview

In this episode of What the Fundraising Podcast…

This episode is a must-listen for anyone looking to enhance their nonprofit’s fundraising strategy through multi-channel integration and innovative thinking!

Today, we are joined by Dan Sonners, a seasoned expert in the fundraising industry with a 17-year career dedicated to empowering nonprofit organizations to discover new donors, raise more funds, and optimize their programs with innovative strategies. Throughout this conversation, he shares practical advice on testing and measuring the effectiveness of integrated marketing strategies. Moreover, he challenges fundraisers to seek knowledge beyond their specialties to build more substantial and collaborative fundraising efforts. 

As Vice President at Conrad Direct, Dan oversees acquisition efforts for a diverse group of nonprofits, utilizing a data-driven approach to provide tailored lists and media recommendations. His role encompasses various aspects of donor acquisition, including results analysis, list planning, data segmentation, list modeling, co-op management, and multi-channel expansion. Also, Dan excels in tailoring bespoke solutions that align with the distinctive missions, goals, and market dynamics of various organizations. His adept strategies have garnered millions of donors and propelled revenue into the hundreds of millions. Additionally, he is the esteemed host of the Dynamic Nonprofits podcast.

During today’s conversation, Dan takes us through his unique journey from a background in broadcast communications and wedding video production to becoming the Vice President at Conrad Direct and President of the Direct Marketing Association of Washington. Furthermore, Dan shares his insights on the power of multi-channel marketing, emphasizing the importance of integrating direct mail with digital strategies to enhance donor engagement and conversions. He highlights the value of combining direct mail with channels like SMS, email, and social media to create a cohesive and impactful donor experience. Also, delving into his personal experiences, Dan discusses the importance of breaking down organizational silos and fostering cross-channel collaboration among fundraisers. He further provides a compelling example of how connected television and direct mail can work together to capture and maintain donor attention.

EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS

RAISE MORE FROM THE RIGHT FUNDERS

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ADDITIONAL RESOURCES

  • Many thanks to our sponsor, Keela for making this episode possible. Our friends at Keela offer nonprofits like yours comprehensive fundraising and donor management software, equipped with powerful tools to expand your reach, increase fundraising revenue, and foster a dedicated community of supporters. Want a user-friendly platform that provides actionable data? Look no further than Keela. Check out Keela at keela.co/mallory.

  • If you haven’t already, please visit our new What the Fundraising community forum. Check it out and join the conversation at this link.
  • If you’re looking to raise more from the right funders, then you’ll want to check out my Power Partners Formula, a step-by-step approach to identifying the optimal partners for your organization. This free masterclass offers a great starting point

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Get to know Dr. Nadia Brown:

Donald Summers is the Founder & CEO of Altruist Partners, a global advisory firm for nonprofits and social enterprises. He and his firm have led scores of successful nonprofit and social enterprise accelerations from the local to the global level in the fields of education, human services, health, environmental reform, and public media. He is a graduate of Middlebury College and Harvard University.

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I teach nonprofit fundraisers to bring in more gifts from the RIGHT donors… so they can stop hounding people for money. Fundraising doesn’t have to be uncomfortable.

MALLORY ERICKSON

Episode Transcript

Nadia Brown: [00:00:00] When we don’t do our part and making the ask, we rob others, the opportunity to support us to really, to give and to sow into our visions. And, you know, especially in a nonprofit world, but even when they’re buying from us and we’re making a sale, then we robbed them of the opportunity to really go forward and really step into their potential.

Nadia Brown: Especially when we know that we know that we know that we can help them and support them. And we are the solution to the problem that we’re having.

Mallory Erickson: Hey, my name is Mallory and I’m obsessed with helping leaders in the nonprofit space raise money and run their organizations differently. What the fundraising is a space for real and raw conversations to both challenge and inspire you. Not too long ago, I was in your shoes. Uncomfortable with fundraising and unsure of my place in this sector.

Mallory Erickson: It wasn’t until I started to listen to other experts outside of the fundraising space that I was able to shift my mindset and [00:01:00] ultimately shift the way I show up as a leader. This podcast is my way of blending professional and personal development. So we as a collective inside the nonprofit sector can feel good about the work we are doing.

Mallory Erickson: Join me every week as I interview some of the brightest minds in the personal and professional development space to help you fundamentally change the way you lead and fundraise. I hope you enjoy this episode. So let’s dive in.

Mallory Erickson: Welcome everyone. I am very excited to be here today with Nadia Brown. Nadia, welcome to what the fundraising Dr. Nadia Brown. 

Nadia Brown: Thank you. So excited to 

Mallory Erickson: be here, Mallory. So why don’t we start with you telling everyone a little bit about you and your work, and then we can jump into all the juiciness. Ooh, 

Nadia Brown: yeah.

Nadia Brown: So I’m the founder of the Doyin Agency, host of the Straight Talk About Sales podcast. And we do Sales training and sales consulting for small and medium sized businesses. 

Mallory Erickson: Amazing. And will you tell us a little bit more around or about how you got [00:02:00] into that in terms of sales in general and sort of, I was telling you before we clicked record, I love this line in your LinkedIn bio around helping build powerful sales teams out of your non existing or out of your existing non sales team members.

Mallory Erickson: Um, and so that really. Sparked my interest because I think there’s a lot of nonprofits out there looking to build fundraising support or move folks into those roles who don’t have a historic background in fundraising. I was an accidental fundraiser, very normal in our sector. And so I think there’s likely a lot of alignment there.

Mallory Erickson: So tell us a little bit more about how you got into sales in the first place and then your excitement around this work. 

Nadia Brown: Oh my gosh. Well, one definitely accidental. Well, not so accidental. I started as a business owner. Well, not, well, I transitioned from corporate and I quickly realized though, that I needed to learn sales, but I needed to learn how to do sales in a way that felt good to me.

Nadia Brown: And a lot of the training and support that I’ve received was just [00:03:00] completely out of alignment. And so. I went on my own journey, I was short in the story, but basically I ended up supporting an organization, a former mentor invited me to come on board to do some leadership consulting. And he was like, you know, it’s part of your compensation.

Nadia Brown: He’s like, we’ll pay you. And we know you need some sales coaching. I was like, sure, I’ll totally take that. And so we were, you know, we started this journey and Mallory, I always tell people, had I known what I was getting myself into when I said yes to that, I probably would have said no. But I didn’t know.

Nadia Brown: So here I was thinking that I was just going to do these things. And I ended up not only becoming number one in sales in that organization, but then I started teaching and training other people how to do sales. And it really just hit me like, you know, sales isn’t nearly as hard as I’d made it to be. And that’s how we got on this journey.

Mallory Erickson: Okay. What within like. 20 seconds of you starting that story, you said [00:04:00] two words that are super important to me and how I think about these things. One, you said like, it didn’t feel good to me. And so I want to talk about the feeling side of it, because I think that I love that you said that. I don’t love that it didn’t feel good to you, but I love that that was the first sort of like noticing that you had.

Mallory Erickson: And then you connected that directly to being out of alignment, which is something I talk a lot about fundraising in alignment and what I call alignment fundraising, which is prioritizing alignment over money. Um, what happens when we do alignment first instead of alignment later? Instead of money first, so I think we’re going to have a very good conversation about that.

Mallory Erickson: And I’m curious, let’s, can we talk first about that feeling piece? Because I just believe so deeply that we try to kind of like disconnect our, our like work tasks from our humanness. And when we do that, we create this, this, like, [00:05:00] space where we’re trying to like operationalize a human experience in an impossible way.

Mallory Erickson: And until we actually acknowledge the feelings that are involved, we can’t even kind of structure the operational side correctly. So I think we’re really aligned there. So talk me through it from your perspective. 

Nadia Brown: Yeah. So a big part of it is. People don’t realize just how important your feelings about sales around sales actually impact your success.

Nadia Brown: And so a big part of it, and one of the things that I’ve trained, I’m like, you have to find a way that works for you. So whether it’s sales or even fundraising, because essentially you’re asking for someone to make an investment of some sort or a donation, and it can sometimes feel icky. And so how do you align?

Nadia Brown: Like you said, in a way, and one of the things you do is when. You have to be passionate about the mission. I think that’s really important in nonprofit because when you’re excited about the work and you’re [00:06:00] excited about what the organization does, the ask suddenly doesn’t seem that big at all, because a lot of times it just naturally flows out of you.

Nadia Brown: You’re like, this is what we do. And this is how we help. And this is how we serve. Oh, and here’s how you can support. And it can be so simple, but when we, we have to get out of our heads. And so that’s the big piece of it is really important. How excited are you about the mission and the focus and the vision of the organization?

Nadia Brown: And then tap into that when you’re making the ask and people will feed off of that and they will just continue to move forward. 

Mallory Erickson: Yeah. I love that. And I, you know, it’s interesting. I feel like in fundraising, Well, I thought as a fundraiser, like, okay. When I was a fundraiser, I was also a program director, right.

Mallory Erickson: And I was doing all these different things. And I felt like I could speak so passionately about the organization. If I was just put somewhere to talk about our programs, the moment that money was involved though, I just had like a ball in my throat. And [00:07:00] it was like, I was so passionate about the work, but there was this block basically where I just.

Mallory Erickson: Couldn’t talk about things in the same way because I felt like disingenuous or something. I had these like layered beliefs about money. I felt like I was doing something wrong. And so even though I had all that passion, It, like, wasn’t accessible when I was fundraising. And I have a number of ways that sort of I teach, you know, this to folks, but I’m curious, like hearing that, what are some things you help sales folks work through if maybe that’s their experience?

Mallory Erickson: Like, I really believe in this product or I really believe in my business. Like I’m there. I just, the moment you’re asking me to talk about money, I’m there. I just have a mouthful of goldfish. 

Nadia Brown: Oh my gosh. Uh, I love that. I love your term when you’ve met, you mentioned being the words being accessible. No, I get that all the time.

Nadia Brown: I get a lot of business owners who are like, I’m passionate about the work that I [00:08:00] do. And like you said, when it’s time to talk about an investment or a money, the money part of this conversation, I just, I choke. I don’t ask, um, or I discount or I do all the things to avoid it. So we typically start with the mindset around it.

Nadia Brown: Money mindset, all of your thoughts and feelings around money. I work with a lot of women, so we have our own stories and all of our own experience around how we talk about money, how we engage with money. Because it’s a big thing and it’s a, whether you’re in fundraising or you’re a business owner. Money makes it work.

Nadia Brown: And so you have to get past it. And so we talk about what are those blocks? What’s coming up for you? How do we practice saying it? And how do you do it in a way that, like you said, that you can access it, that you can be comfortable? And some of that is just plain old fashioned practice. Like, let’s just sit down and practice saying some numbers.

Nadia Brown: To really, you know, get your mouth accustomed to [00:09:00] saying, we got to train the brain. And so, and then a lot of times I’ll actually have them practice saying numbers that are higher, right? Like, so the fundraising goal could be 50, 000. Let’s add a zero because if you can get comfortable saying 500, 000, then 50, 000 really is nothing.

Nadia Brown: And then the other thing I will also say is. Really understanding value. I think sometimes when you look at the money part and we do kind of get choked up on it, it can be an issue, but when you go back to the value and you really. Step into the value because sometimes we don’t want to talk about the money because then we make it about us Or we’re only focused on a small part of the bigger vision but when you really can look at the impact and then the ripple effect and then ultimately you’re like You know, what we do here or the service I provide is really, really valuable.

Nadia Brown: And in many cases, it’s priceless. Like there [00:10:00] is no number that’s too big. It really starts to, again, shift your mindset around it to make it more comfortable. But ultimately, a lot of times we just have to practice saying it. 

Mallory Erickson: Okay, that is such good advice people often like on group coaching calls like oh my gosh How do you know exactly what to say?

Mallory Erickson: And I’m like because I’ve said it like 40, 000 times Alright navigated all these things and I think you’re right like we those like inner blocks or that inner dialogue like gets quieter the more you have just a sort of a toolkit of language to use to talk about these things. It sort of starts to like override that.

Mallory Erickson: I’m curious, okay, I don’t even know exactly how to get at the question I have here, but I feel like there’s something here around, I’m really glad that you called out that piece around we, we don’t ask or we discount things. Because that happens in the nonprofit sector a lot. Like truly the amount of times [00:11:00] I did a presentation about my organization.

Mallory Erickson: And at the end I said, I was going to go to that last slide where I invited people to give, and I was like, Oh, I’m out of time. Or, Oh, but they asked such good questions or, Oh, this just felt so good. If they wanted to give, they would, I don’t need to do that. Like I would talk myself out of it. Right. I never, I never get there.

Mallory Erickson: Or yeah, I mean, I said, I still feel it sometimes when I’m sending a proposal to a client or sending something out. Like, should I give a discount? Should I just take a little bit off? How can I make, and I have to like coach myself around it every single time. So what is that? Because that piece around value is so important.

Mallory Erickson: Like, you know, I’ve had this experience recently where people will say to me like you’re expensive and I’ve gotten used to just saying. Like, okay. And for a while I said yes, but then I realized, well, expensive is like a totally like subjective term. You know what? It really is. Like, and so I’m just like, [00:12:00] so I’m like, okay, like, okay.

Mallory Erickson: Like, uh, you know, to you, I am expensive, but then the same people who would say that to me would still hire me or still partner with me in that way. And so I was like, okay, so, so what does that mean? Does that mean that you think I’m charging too much because You don’t, you don’t value that level of work, but you still definitely think it’s worth it.

Mallory Erickson: Like, you’re still definitely getting that value because even after saying that, you’re still paying that. So, what, can you talk to me a little bit about what is that and how do we, like, Navigate that in our own teams and in our own mind when we’re thinking about pricing things or the amount we want to put in front of a donor or an ask amount, 

Nadia Brown: right?

Nadia Brown: So, oh, my gosh, that was such a good question. I think part of it is being uncomfortable and doing it anyway. So sometimes we. We [00:13:00] bail because of our own discomfort, not because of the discomfort of someone else. And you’re a hundred percent right. I just recently, as a matter of fact, I had a conversation just yesterday about doing sales training for a board at a nonprofit hundred percent.

Nadia Brown: And, you know, I know I was having these conversations and I remember for part of the conversation, I was like, well, we could also do this and helping with putting together a succession plan, blah, blah, blah, blah. And she had that moment. Uh, cause I told her that that’s it. Well, typically, you know, this is what we charge for this.

Nadia Brown: And she goes, Oh, like a physical, like, she’s like, Oh, Nadia, I don’t know if we can do that. But then she said, well, tell me more. And so I was like, you’re right. I just kind of jumped right into this. I said, well, let me back up. I shared my screen. I shared some more details around what that could look like.

Nadia Brown: And then we just talked about it. And I, but I gave her the space. To process out loud. And she was like, okay, this still, it didn’t change the amount, right? Whether it’s [00:14:00] expensive or significant, it’s still a significant investment, but it shifted her mindset to where she was like, you know, we might be able to get funding for that.

Nadia Brown: And, you know, because I won’t have the capacity, me and my team to do that during, you know, they were going into our busy season. So we don’t yet have a yes, but we do now have a seed planted because now she is thinking about it. And I think that a lot of times we don’t go to the last slide. I’ve been there, done that.

Nadia Brown: We don’t make the ask because of our own discomfort with asking. And what helps me get beyond that many times is. I remember I was at, um, I was supporting a nonprofit some years ago and I was at an event and this, uh, I was, you know, it was an event and I had my little box to take back to my car and there were some youth around and one of the hosts of that particular event, the leaders, he was like, you know, this is a young man that will help you take your stuff when you’re ready to the car.

Nadia Brown: And he looked at me cause I must’ve had that [00:15:00] look like, dude, this box isn’t that heavy. I can handle it. And he was like, don’t rob him of the opportunity to bless you. And I was like, Oh, right. And I think that that’s the thing. When we don’t do our part and making the ask, we rob others, the opportunity to support us, to really, to give and to sow into our visions.

Nadia Brown: And, you know, especially in a nonprofit world, but even when they’re buying from us and we’re making a sale, then we robbed them of the opportunity to really go forward and really step into their potential. Especially when we know that we know that we know that we can help them and support them and we are the solution to the problem that we’re having that they’re having.

Nadia Brown: And so are you going to leave them? In this perpetual state of confusion and frustration, when normally we can go in there and in a 30 minutes, sometimes it starts to fix and help connect dots and really help clean up some chaos. And it’s like [00:16:00] that choice then is up to us. So I think when we take it, we don’t make it about us.

Nadia Brown: It’s not about you. And we really focus on whether it’s the people that get to donate or to invest, or even when it comes to nonprofits, the people that you get to serve with those funds, focus on them. And that will help fuel you to go to the last slide to take a few extra moments to make the ask, right.

Nadia Brown: Or even to ask for the sale because it’s just that important. 

Mallory Erickson: Yeah. Okay. That is awesome. Such good advice. And some of the things I’m kind of like narrowing in on are like, yes, that discomfort is our like fight or flight response, right? Like a flight response. That’s like, get me out of here. I want to end this discomfort as quickly as possible.

Mallory Erickson: And the way to do that is not to do this thing. Um, and so recognizing that what we’re responding That flight desire inside of us, not actually a [00:17:00] logical response to, um, or, or a response with any sort of like data behind it into what the donor wants in that moment. Um, and so I think that is a super, super important reminder.

Mallory Erickson: And I also think there’s a lot of behavioral science to support what you said at the end there that I just want to double click on around like that. Sometimes we really struggle to ask for things for ourselves, particularly women identifying people. And so reminding ourselves of like who we’re asking for, or like whether that’s the beneficiary or the benefit of the donor too.

Mallory Erickson: Or even like our future self, I find helps. Ooh, that’s great. Can help kind of activate, you know, our kind of like altruistic asking that sometimes like helps us get over that hurdle, which I think is great. Okay, I’m curious about, you know, this piece about helping non salespeople become salespeople. I want to talk about the identity shift that’s there.

Mallory Erickson: Because [00:18:00] fundraising, and my guess would be that sales is similar, like fundraising is very isolating. And it’s often very isolating because for a lot of non profits there’s like one fundraiser or just the executive director does the fundraising. And, You’re kind of caught between the rest of the staff teams.

Mallory Erickson: You’re isolated away from programs. A lot of the time, you’re also like isolated on your, like from your board, but maybe more impactful than like the structural isolation is the attitudinal isolation. The sort of like the way people say, well, I’m not a fundraiser or, you know, but I can’t do that because I’m not the fundraiser.

Mallory Erickson: Right. And it’s like, there’s just this, This energy around it that I think feels like this, I constantly had this like feeling like am I doing something wrong is like this bad and yet like the work I’m doing is powering this entire organization employing all of these people like, you know, but just that kind of attitude really led to a lot of self doubt and feeling really alone [00:19:00] and so my guess is in the work that you do to it.

Mallory Erickson: You know, turn non salespeople into salespeople. There’s some identity work that happens there. 

Nadia Brown: Oh, yes. I 

Mallory Erickson: want to hear about that. Cause I feel like there’s something we can really learn from that. 

Nadia Brown: Well, I think like you said, when you have the ED that’s doing all the fundraising or even sometimes in a small business, you have the founder doing all the sales, right?

Nadia Brown: And everyone else on the team is like, like you said, not me, not my job. I don’t do it. And so part of it is really helping the company to see the team, I should say, that this supports everyone and it helps if all of this pressure isn’t on the shoulders of just one person. And so we look at, how do you now look at your particular role through a sales lens or a fundraising lens?

Nadia Brown: So what types of conversations are you having? What types of questions are you asking? What are you doing to [00:20:00] really support? That moving forward. And so we have a lot of cultural conversations, honestly, like, because it’s a big thing because a lot of people are like, Oh, now you’re asking me to do something that I wasn’t hired to do.

Nadia Brown: Like they didn’t get really upset when it’s like, again, because a lot of people’s money stuff comes up and it’s like, no, no, no, that’s not what we’re asking you to do, but we are asking you to have a shift in perspective. And sometimes it helps people to see. You’re already a part of this. Like you said, this is a small organization.

Nadia Brown: We’re already in it. You just never realized it. Now we’re asking you to be a lot more intentional in your day to day, whether it’s making an ask, whether it’s asking different questions to really help that founder or that ED really know the conversations that they’re having. So it’s really starting to help people shift.

Nadia Brown: One of the funny things that I have found in doing these trainings is that you find that when people get beyond that, and they’re like, Oh, but wait, I could do [00:21:00] more. So then you have team members who then get excited. Some start out excited by the time someone reaches out. They’re like, my team is excited to work with you because they want to support.

Nadia Brown: Other times it’s like, I don’t know. There’s that, you know, fear and trepidation. But it really is having that conversation and helping people to see we’re all part of it. You just didn’t realize it because the ED or the founder or the leader was essentially protecting you from that because they just shouldered all of that responsibility.

Nadia Brown: But now we’re like, no, this is what this really looks like. And now let’s look at your role and see how you can be a better support. Even if you never ever make a direct ask. Because that’s not always necessary. 

Mallory Erickson: Okay, I love that, and, and I wonder, like, are there any sort of, like, language no no’s that you have teams embrace, or things, like, cultural, cultural elements that you prioritize in [00:22:00] terms of, like, when they’re together, you know, sentences that maybe folks shouldn’t say.

Mallory Erickson: Say or types of feedback. Like this is something I do when I bring marketing and fundraising departments together. I talk a lot about, you know, in the nonprofit sector, we hear a lot about the culture of philanthropy and I talk about a culture of fundraising. Like how do you create a healthy culture of fundraising inside an organization?

Mallory Erickson: And part of that is that the entire team. really needs to commit to talking about fundraising in a positive light. And I give them some language to do so and some things to watch out for. Um, you know, some things to watch out for that, that really like lead to folks avoiding doing the hardest things like inviting people to invest.

Mallory Erickson: I’m curious if you have any sort of like cultural norms like that you, you might recommend. 

Nadia Brown: One, I, you know, anytime you can make it a group activity, because like you said, it can become very isolating. And that’s the one reason why a lot of people tend to shy away from it. So can we, are there times when we do [00:23:00] call blitz or sprints and we’re just doing our follow ups or our reach outs together and we set a time and we just get it done and we have fun and we make it more celebratory versus making it seem so laborious?

Nadia Brown: Because I think sometimes, you know, salespeople can make it look. Really hard. And no one’s like, I don’t want to do the hard. I want it to be fun. So, you know, really creating that, like, I love that. What you said, a culture of fundraising versus philanthropy. That’s so good. Because, and you know, it’s true, how do we now talk about it in a way within the organization where people are excited to be a part of it, or at least willing to participate?

Nadia Brown: Like never, not everyone will be as excited as we are. That’s fine. But we need some willingness to participate and how can we best support them in that? And you know, it doesn’t have to be this major. Things I think sometimes people get into do we [00:24:00] have to now shift how come we compensate and, you know, make it overly complicated.

Nadia Brown: It doesn’t have to get there like we can go there. But, you know, a lot of times getting started. We just start with conversation. And we start with bringing people together and getting everyone on the same page. And then we look at the culture of the organization. Now, how can we make this fun? And where we have buy in that people continue to do this on an ongoing basis.

Mallory Erickson: Yeah. Yeah, gosh, there’s so much in there that I think is so important to folks. And I do want to sort of double click on this. That thing you said at the end around. Not everybody has to feel the same way to participate and support a healthy culture. And, you know, I think everybody comes to the table with different Money beliefs and backgrounds.

Mallory Erickson: And I think there’s, you know, I definitely think money mindset is really important. And in the nonprofit sector, I think folks are dealing with both scarcity mindset and also material [00:25:00] scarcity, both often on an individual level, but on a systemic level. And that has a lot of different intersectional Like elements as well, that I think are important to recognize that you can’t just do like a money mindset workshop with all the folks in your organization and expect that everybody’s going to land in the same place, you know, across race and class and all of these things that really deeply affect our lens.

Mallory Erickson: It’s very nuanced. Yes, exactly. And so I love what you’re saying, which is like, Meeting folks where they’re at giving everybody a foot they can step forward with bringing people together collectively to recognize it does take all of us in our lanes and streams and ways of doing things to power this like engine and maybe I’ll end with this final question, which is, you know, Money is not the point, right?

Mallory Erickson: Like money is [00:26:00] the, is the way in which we make impact, or it’s one of the ways in which we make impact. And I feel like both fundraisers and salespeople get stigmatized around, like, caring about the money for money’s sake. And I feel like it’s one of the reasons why people avoid association with those roles is because they don’t want to, you know, seem like they’re greedy or vain or, you know, any of those types of things.

Mallory Erickson: How do you talk about that or work through that with folks as they’re starting to shift their identity towards being more associated with the sales function? 

Nadia Brown: Oh my gosh, you are so right. Oh, but yes, you said it perfectly. I think one of the things and one of the things I wanted to also make sure I highlight is I don’t think doing a money mindset training or having a money mindset conversation is one and done.

Nadia Brown: And I think it’s even more so the case in the non profit world where in your day to day [00:27:00] work. You see some of the most severe and challenged situations. And so there’s this massive dichotomy between this massive need over here where people are suffering, and now you want me to ask people for money.

Nadia Brown: Like, it’s, it’s, And so I think it’s important to note that this is an ongoing conversation that people have to have and making sure that their support and helping people manage that, because that is huge and it’s a heavy load to carry. And so in that, I think that’s also part of the conversation is. I don’t do this work or I don’t do sales because I’m trying to make a lot of money and as such as such a massive, it’s so funny because people say all the time, salespeople are only motivated by money.

Nadia Brown: And I’m like, that is so not true. Like, but you don’t even have time to go there. But, and I think it’s, but it’s the same thing for fundraising, right? They’re not [00:28:00] motivated by money, but they understand how the money has impacts and the more money you have, the greater impact you can make. And that is what the constant conversation and redirection has to be internally and within the organization.

Nadia Brown: I’m not doing this because I just want to line my pockets, right? I could probably find easier work, honestly. So, you know, when you really look at it, probably find easier work and line my pocket, if that were the only thing that were driving me and helping people to understand the connection between the dollars.

Nadia Brown: And the mission and the impact and helping people and equipping them with the tools so they can have those conversations, those inner dialogues daily to have that redirection. Because if not, it’s so easy to get caught in that negative swirl. All is bad. It’s never going to get better, you know, and we can’t have that.

Nadia Brown: We have to be able to [00:29:00] see the need. And still then be able to shift. Into a posture where I can speak confidently to make an ask so that we can then go fill the need and that is a very, very challenging position to be in. 

Mallory Erickson: Okay. I could talk to you forever, but I’m like, can I have 30 more minutes? But, um, thank you so, so, so much for joining me today.

Mallory Erickson: Tell folks where they can go to learn more about you and your work and connect with you and hire you and all the things. 

Nadia Brown: You can learn more about me and our team over@thedoyenagency.com. Amazing. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. It was great.

Mallory Erickson: I hope today’s episode inspired or challenged you to think differently. For additional takeaways, tips, show notes, and more about our amazing guest and sponsors, head on over to mallory erickson.com. And if [00:30:00] you didn’t know, hosting this podcast, isn’t the only thing I do every day. I coach guide and help fundraisers and leaders just like you inside of my program, the power partners formula collective inside the program.

Mallory Erickson: I share my methods, tools, and experiences that have helped me fundraise millions of dollars and feel good about myself in the process. To learn more about how I can help you visit Mallory Erickson. com backslash power partners. Last but not least, if you enjoyed this episode, I’d love to encourage you to share it with a friend you know would benefit or leave a review.

Mallory Erickson: I’m so grateful for all of you and the good hard work you’re doing to make our world a better place. I can’t wait to see you in the next episode.

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